Starting as a founding PMM is challenging. Collin Mayjack (Host of Product Marketing Life podcast) pushed it one step further, relaunching a core product — 2 weeks into his new role. We’re covering how to influence internal relationships, nurture them, and shine more light on the product marketing role.
Collin goes over:
If you’re starting out a new role or want to be better equipped to nail your next PMM position, this episode is for you.
Final cut: Episode with Collin
[00:00:00]
This isn't a podcast on labeling product marketing. This is apodcast for product marketing managers who feel misunderstood internally.Because building slide decks and writing copy is not all that we do. So aretoday's product marketers actually marketers?
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Hey everyone. Welcome to our next episode of Not Marketers myself, Zach, goingaround the table.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Eric Holland up here, the one and only Frankenmarketer.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Gab Bujold, I'm Sales Deck intern.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:And we've got an exciting guest with us today. We got Collin Mayjack, andCollin, you've been on, you've been on our feed lately. I say feed ie. LinkedInHey, we just want to pass the mic over to you. Give us a quick intro, like whatshould the world know about Collin Mayjack?
Track 1: Yeah, myname's Collin Mayjack. I'm the founding PMM at a company called Dataro.
Track 1: . We usemachine learning [00:01:00] provide donorpredictions for nonprofits so you can have more smarter targeting on yourcampaigns. As far as like my history, I. I stumbled into product marketing byaccident. My whole background is in like the church nonprofit space.
Track 1: And so ifyou rewound to four or five years ago and said you're gonna become this thingcalled a product marketer, I'd be like, what's a product marketer? And thenyou're gonna be working in tech and working in B2B Tech. I would ask, What'sB2B? And then tell you that's not actually gonna happen. So that's like mycontext.
Track 1: I'veprobably come at this with a different lens and some I've been learning as I'vebeen building.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Hey, Collin,
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:I'm, per.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:in breaking that up a little bit more for you, not just for myself, buteveryone else listening. what type of roles did you have over the last four orfive years that actually got you into product marketing?
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Wait, Eric,
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:ask the proverbial question
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:before
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:we.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:already breached a topic of unusual background that I need
Track 1: Okay.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I need to know right now.
Track 1: I'm ready [00:02:00] for it when it comes, but.
Track 1: Yeah, so myrole was what was called the director of Community. And so my job was to a lotof content that would help facilitate group discussion and help build apipeline for people to get connected to other people who are in the church, intheir neighborhood, and then serve nonprofits in the city.
Track 1: So if youlive in Northeast Portland, gather together. of you who live in the sameneighborhood. You have dinner every single week and you partner with RefugeeCare Collective or another nonprofit in the city. And I feel like there, Ilearned to write and I learned how to think clearly and I learned how toprovide like a very clear path for someone, like someone shows up.
Track 1: But what'sthis whole thing about for me to say, let me hold your hand and tell you alongthe way how to get there. But yeah, I pivoted out of that a couple years backand no one knows. What to do with someone with that experience. And I was luckyenough, someone took a chance on me as a project manager on a [00:03:00] marketing team.
Track 1: So I endedup working on a, got to break outta that into a digital marketing team, workingon a digital product for essentially financial wellness. And I was thrown intothe deep end, like I knew nothing. I remember just hearing so many damnacronyms, like so many acronyms, and you don't know. How many there are unlessyou have the perspective of someone who's broken into it for the first time.
Track 1: And butproject management helped me get the full funnel of marketing. So I gotta seelike, all right, here's way up here from like a revenue standpoint where ourleaders are thinking, here's where a product manager's thinking about where theproduct's gonna go. Here's how this marketing squad is thinking about howthey're going to take that message out to the market.
Track 1: And it'scopywriters and designers and copy editors and. Make its way out there. And itjust gave me this really broad exposure to the function.
Track 1: And then I broke into a product marketingrole that, at a company that [00:04:00] specifically built an audience engagementplatform for churches. So it's this convergence of like, all right, you knowour customer really well.
Track 1: You've learned a foundation of marketing andwe'll take a chance on you again. So a long string of people taking chances onme.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:And it sounds like they're, they've all turned into winning bets, so that'sreally awesome, man.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:I'm gonna pass it off to Gab to like, to bestow this question upon Collin, butbefore we do like fun fact, this is the second guest we've had with a Master'sin theological studies. So I'm not sure what that says about the future ofproduct marketing, but I'm gonna pass over to get Collin's insight on our nextquestion.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:We have work to do on our ICP guys. With that, we will need to review
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:documents.
Track 1: I'm meetthis person.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:thanks again for Being here, but let's get to brass task. Are product marketersactually marketers and why?
Track 1: [00:05:00] You know when I saw you guys come out withthis angle on, we're not marketers, I respected the bravery 'cause you guysstepped right into a LinkedIn firestorm around this debate about whetherproduct
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Dumpster Fire.
Track 1: Yeah,exactly. And I think you've probably taken some heat from because of it, at therisk of giving a boring answer.
Track 1: Yes and no.If you're measuring if by marketer you mean a product marketer should bemeasured by how many MQLs ls they drive how many impressions that we'regetting, whether whether we get this open rate on an email or whatever it maybe. If you're. Traditional metrics of a di, a classic digital marketer or evena demand gen marketer, and you put that onto a product marketer, you havemissed what that person is capable of.
Track 1: And in thatsense, no we're not marketers, but in the sense that you have to have a clarityof thought. You have to have a clarity with [00:06:00]words, and your job is. Using a string of marketing tactics to connect yourcustomer to your product and then your product back to your customer, and justkeep those lines of communication tight.
Track 1: We'remarketers, so I think we're measured on a whole, we play by different rules.We're measured by a totally different set of measurements. In my opinion. Ifeel like I'm constantly having to say Hey, this is hard to measure, or it'sI'll help with mql, but that's not really what I do and I.
Track 1: That kindof, you're constantly painted to that corner of, we're probably most at homewith marketing. I've seen product marketers report up through product andthrough marketing. Best case you report up through product marketing or throughstrategy.
Track 1: And I stillthink though, no matter where you get put, you're gonna have a hard timeexplaining who you are. And you're gonna have to different, you're like I'm notactually just product and I'm not actually just marketing like the. That's soshort answer, yes and no. [00:07:00] We're not
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:It depends.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:The answer most
Track 1: It.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:ever said in marketing, it depends
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I think you broke it out very, how much I would align with it, right? You'vegotta have sets to be a marketer, but If you just put a product marketer theresponsibility bucket of demand gen stuff, you have missed the mark that hire,both from just a departmental view, but also the talent and the skillset thatproduct marketer is bringing to your organization.
Track 1: So a quickfollow up to that is that Collin, you mentioned this is your second foundingPMM role and and one piece of context we hear when you start off as a foundingPMM, is that. You may be coming into a space where you're gonna be doing alittle bit of everything beyond product
Track 1: Yeah.
Track 1: within themarketing purview.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:So I'm curious, [00:08:00] like when you gointo, like, when you've gone into organizations like this, what's been theperception of product marketing from your key stakeholders and how have youthem so far the definition you shared with us just now.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Yeah,
Track 1: man. thinkit's so contextual based on the leaders who actually bring you in and I, 'causeI think there's a whole spectrum. I thinkthere's some people who hire a product marketer. I. They've seen on LinkedIn orthey've seen in someone's talk about how like the first logical marketing hireis a product marketer.
Track 1: The job descriptions for product marketerson LinkedIn. Some of them are in a hellscape.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Yeah.
Track 1: I saw one recently. I was like, this is acontent marketer. There's nothing about this. That's product marketing. It waslike talking about building a podcast running like blogs that optimizing themfor SEO was like, this isn't product marketing.
Track 1: [00:09:00] Andthen there are sometimes we're lucky enough get brought on by someone whoreally understands product marketing. And so I feel like one of my roles I wasbrought in head of VP of marketing who was able to recognize, Hey, I. We'resmall, there's a team of three. You are gonna have to do some things that arenot strictly product marketing, but he was trying to block and tackle for meand say, Hey, I'm gonna try to protect your time to focus on product marketing.
Track 1: And so leadership's a big part of it. Andyou can't always pick that. And in a job market like ours, it's not perfect.
Track 1: But as far as what I have done, I'vetried to define product marketing as soon as I get in the role, rather than letit get defined for me. And so I've picked up what I've called the PMM speakingtour, where I will put together aslide deck because if you don't put together a slide deck are even a marketer,
Track 1: Iacknowledge, Hey, product marketing's new here, have you worked with the PMMbefore? What was that like at other companies? And a lot of times theanswer's no. Occasionally the answer's [00:10:00]yes, and then I'll say, Hey,here's what product marketing is.
Track 1: And I'll pull from, I pull from MartinaLauchengco and I pull from Richard King from Product Marketing Alliance. Andthen I put in my own definition of this is what product marketing is. And. Thentry to make it, Hey, how does this actually matter for you if you're in CS orif you're in sales, or if you're in product?
Track 1: Like, how do I help? And actually have thelittle PMA Ven Venn diagram that I say, all right, if you're in CS, this is allthe stuff you can ask me about. And if you're in marketing, here's all thestuff you can ask me about. And if you're in Product, this is all the stuff youcan ask me about. And so on.
Track 1: And even doing that and situating yourselfas not in any one of those. Starts to carve out people's expectationlike, oh, this isn't just marketing,or it isn't just a product manager.
Track 1: And I've never had that be received poorly.Like people are stoked if you come in and say, Hey, I'm gonna help you with onall these areas, the, and you're essentially saying, I'm willing to help. Hereis the narrow range of things that are [00:11:00]actually helpful for you to,that I can actually help you on. And so that, that tour, I take it with thewhole go to market team.
Track 1: Mylast company I did CS and we did ahuddle with the CS team, sales huddle with the CS team, I couldn't recommend ithigh enough.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:My question is, how does that, what does that look like?
Track 1: I thiNk your, my actions have historicallycemented it afterwards. I think that initial kind of laying the foundation in asmall team, you might just meet up with them and walk through the same thingwith that one person.
Track 1: But if you've got a couple salespeople, youractions can start to shape the culture of how the sales team relates to. I justset up a standing meeting with our sales team and I said, Hey, you know whatI'm thinking? We'll just get together every week, every other week, and I'llhear what's working in your guys' pitches?
Track 1: What's working? Just trying to close deals.And then here, where are you getting stuck? Like where do you need enablementaround a competitor? Where is the line of messaging just not resonating orcreating the wrong [00:12:00] expectation once you actually get them inthe demo. I think that those connections with, I do that awesome with product.
Track 1: I do that with Cs and the continualconnections solidify. This is the role I have. The one you painted like in, ina beautiful slide deck becomes a little more real if you actually have standingmeetings with these team members and you play the part you said you were gonnaplay. I'll, I won't hesitate to take people's time on my team because I thinkit's valuable.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:And actions speak louder than words, so think that's amazing. Just want toDouble down a little bit on what you said that it really depends on theleadership. Do you think there's some leaders that product marketers, ,actually report to that makes it easier to, be successful in your role as afounding PMM?
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Is there a difference between reporting to a VP of sales or chief revenueofficer or a CEO or whatever.
Track 1: yeah, A hundred percent. I think it's [00:13:00] apartnership because ultimately that person's your boss and they have a say inwhat you, how you spend your time. And I think the best way that a leader canhelp a product marketer thrive is helping them, helping field off requests thataren't product marketing requests, and that kind of idea of someone blockingand tackling for you and saying, oh, hey, you know what?
Track 1: That's important. That's great that salesbrought that up. That's not actually what you should focus on right now.Typically for me, like I'll give a recommendation and say, Hey, I got thisrequest, here's what I'm focusing on. Like here's the three things that I thinkare important right now, and they're maybe in a small team.
Track 1: It's two of them are really explicitlyproduct marketing and one of them is just for the business. And it's somethingthat, like I was building ads earlier today, like in a more demand gen sort ofway of thinking. And I'll say, these are my three things. Does that check outto you? And that leader validating that your kind of percentage of time shouldbe allocated that way, whether it's majority product marketing, [00:14:00] thatgoes a really long way on whether you're not, you're actually gonna succeed inthat role.
Track 1: Because like they want you to be a demandgen marketer and you're just not like they're gonna be bummed and you're gonnabe bummed.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Oh no, you're good. That was a follow up to what you just shared here, Collin,have you seen that leadership buy-in Intrinsic in current and prior roles?You've
Track 1: how do Iword this in a way that's thoughtful? yes and no. It's varied by the individualleader.
Track 1: So like I, Iworked in a role where the VP of marketing totally got it and the CEO, it's notreally but having, sometimes it depends on a small team, do you have someonewho's over you who thinks like a marketer and understands product marketing?
Track 1: Like havingthat buffer can go a really long way. In my current role, I'm having to, it's alot of partnership in a lot of kind of back and forth between. I ha there areresponsibilities that just have to keep going no matter what. Like our team isbuilt in a certain way where they rely on MQL [00:15:00]in a certain way and I have to pick up those responsibilities, but I'll, I canpresent and say, here's what I think is worth focusing on and why.
Track 1: How doesthat sit with you? I think product marketing a lot of times is about playingthe long game. People say that about marketing. It's especially true forproduct marketing because if you if you go away and you interview customers andyou come out with a really clear positioning and narrative around your productand like the right messaging, you're probably, I.
Track 1: Yourfunnel's probably not gonna blow up with people buying your product in a daybecause some people have, your prospect needs to hear what you're saying aboutyour product five, 10 times before it actually starts to stick. so if you canpersuade a leader to play a long game, that I think is like half the battle foractually carving out space to do PMM work.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Collin, [00:16:00] my man, I hate to tell youthis, but our leaders don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear the longgame. When you hire a product
Track 1: Yeah
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:you better bring the revenue by yesterday. uh.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:that.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:I'm curious, like, how are you, I'm like, what are you saying to these leadersto set
Track 1: yeah
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Because can imagine when I had a similar conversation with a leader, like itdidn't bode too well.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:That.
Track 1: yeah.
Track 1: It's adance. I've heard the analogy before in relationships that you have arelational bank, and I think this is true in working relationships too, thatyou have to make deposits in that bank that actually cost you, and theneventually you can make some withdrawals.
Track 1: I'm likefive weeks into a new role and I didn't come out the gate with let's talk longgame. So I work at, again, at a company that serves nonprofits and givingTuesday is. Big freaking deal if you're in the nonprofit, specifically thefundraising space.
Track 1: And so wehave this product that's basically a GPT powered content assistant for [00:17:00] fundraisers. . And I had this great ideato be like two weeks before giving Tuesday, I just start my job. I said, Hey,
Track 1: what if werelaunched this product? It's called AI Assists. What if we relaunched AIassists alongside Giving Tuesday? And I. Didn't know what I was signing myselfup for, but I was signing myself up for relaunching a product in two weeks,like two weeks into a role.
Track 1: All thestuff they tell you about when you're onboarding of like interview 10 customersand meet with all your stakeholders and understand the customer's pain. It'sabsolutely not. I'm relaunching a product. I think though, I was talking to oneof my mentors about it and he was saying, there's something important aboutjust getting your name on the scoreboard early.
Track 1: And I couldtalk about whether that was a successful or not launch. Hint, it was not verysuccessful launch, but I think the fact that I threw myself in and said, Hey,I'm gonna create something fast and I'll do something fast to try to buildbrand awareness fast, that urgency then I put some money in the bank for nowfor me to, I just laid out like a five month plan for [00:18:00]rebuilding the positioning and how we talk about one of our core product.
Track 1: So a lot of give and take. The short, Ithink you're right. People don't wanna hear it, but I think if you can.Can live outside. I think a lot of PMMs get stuck in the ideals.
Track 1: There's a lot of theory about PMM out therethey're like, No, we're this, or We focus on these kind of thingsand like they just don't budge.
Track 1: And I thinkyou just have to budge, particularly if you're, you might have that luxury if you're on a 12-person PMM team,but if you're a solo PMM, you have to budge a little bit and give something totake something.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Do you think that the idea of going head first into the launch and notnecessarily building the foundation on the first 90 days that ultimately gaveyou an edge to then take a step back and say, okay, so I went first into tryingto take this initiative, trying to bring results. When we do the post launch,when we look at the results, we're able to see that those things actually takestime. We're able to just take a step back and say, okay, so let's focus on thatfoundational [00:19:00] work and just have somebuy-in, instead of having a narrative of short-term results because youactually show the proof that short-term doesn't always cut it.
Track 1: Yeah, Ihaven't leveraged it that way. I think if anything in this. A lot of like agilefound up found up startup founders found ups. A lot of your founders, they havea value for failing fast. And if anything, I think I just earned some streetcred and I could probably use that now into, hey, here's how I'm thinking aboutit.
Track 1: Like my nextkind of body of work it. I haven't pointed to it strictly out of I, I didn'tpoint to time, but I did get to point to some other things. Like I had ahypothesis that product was not a product people had a lot of demand for, buteven more than that, were willing to pay for, I.
Track 1: And myinitial idea was like, can we give this away for free? And I think now I canprobably reopen that conversation of Hey, I think as like a, how do we treatthis as just something that we [00:20:00] giveto our audience. It's, it was never gonna be, we have a product over herethat's 95% of our revenue.
Track 1: This wasnever gonna be compete with that. We're talking a a $20 ticket versus a $4,000ticket. Uh, And I think I have some credibility where I. Come back to like,Hey, maybe we can give this away for free. Sort of lIke I mentioned, who knows?It's not, it's not a, it might be too soon right now, but , it's somethingthat, That credibility and then be able to just show how you think uh, which Icouldn't have done if I just said died on the like, it's gotta be free hill andI didn't test it and try it and it fall in its face and not get the signups wewanted.
Track 1: I would haveno credibility to actually. Suggest an idea that pushes our team out of theircomfort zone.
Track 1: You mind ifI be a skeptic you for a moment?
Track 1: Sure. Hitme.
Track 1: I agree withyou. After hearing that story, I, if I was on that team, I'd [00:21:00] immediately be like, heck yeah, this guy,Collin, he's a real deal.
Track 1: Yeah.
Track 1: on this,right? But here's where my skepticism comes in.
Track 1: I'veactually been trying to work on how I build boundaries and make sure that, therelationships that I build they come with a respect level.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:And what want to toe the line with you is, do you feel like showing that levelof enthusiasm and willingness to get something done. Could perhaps hinder youin the future. just say a slide deck comes up on a Wednesday and it needs doneon Friday.
Track 1: It's a totalrisk. That's totally a risk. I think though, you have to pick your poison interms of what sort of relational problem you could create. So let's take itfrom the other end and say I shut it down and said Hey, this is an unrealisticexpectation. I can't deliver that in that amount of time.
Track 1: It's notstrategic. PMMs strategic, say like I, I drew a hard boundary. What I wouldhave going for me is, [00:22:00] yeah, I'mprobably not gonna get asked to do that kind of stuff again. I also might notget asked to do stuff again. Just period. I do this with sales teams too, , andthere's a lot of talk in product marketing about like when a salesperson comesto you and says, I need this battlecard, you should ask, what problem are youtrying to solve?
Track 1: And that'scute and well-meaning I love that in theory, but in reality, if you're the, ifyou're new, just make the damn battlecard and then you can check back in on itand say, Hey, how'd that go? And if it flops just like you thought it would.You don't do the little victory dance. Next time you say, Hey, last time I sawthis didn't really work.
Track 1: Can I askwhy? Ask what you're trying to solve. I might have a DA different idea. Just Idunno. It's the same philosophy with content. You guys are giving away thiscontent for free. That idea of giving someone something but you give enough tosow some goodwill and.
Track 1: They mighttake advantage of you or try to take advantage of you, that's a better, I thinkit's still erring on the side of giving rather than [00:23:00]guarding to me feels like the win every time.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:it sounds a lot like the rule of reciprocity. You're speaking on.
Track 1: Yeah. I'vebeen thinking about that lately. Like I of all people, my mom called me theother day and she's you're giving away all your secrets on LinkedIn. Why wouldyou do that? And I was like,
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Mama
Track 1: she likethese, like she, she only is on there to creep through my stuff. She, I'll get,I'll a flurry of likes it's notifications.
Track 1: She's
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:My
Track 1: one. Yourcomments before.
Track 1: LinkedIn is.I'm like, Hey, I've shared this on LinkedIn. And I'm like, it's not
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Facebook. And she's oh, okay.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:got 130 connections in one day. Your mom was just forwarding
Track 1: That's
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:coworkers.
Track 1: That's it.Yeah. My mom is gassing me up. Yeah, my mom's gassing me up on LinkedIn.
Track 1: But yeah,she had this concern of like I, 'cause I specifically talked about like how toget hired and she's what if these people compete against you? And [00:24:00] I don't know, I've experienced this withguys like you.
Track 1: I think ofJason Oakley and Tamara Grominsky, and Andy McCotter-Bicknell, like thosepeople and Julian Sauvage, like they've all just given me stuff and. I've beenso grateful and so I feel like I try to do the same thing across, across, andit's not, I don't think it hurt them and I'm thinking, giving things away onLinkedIn or to my team yes, there's a risk.
Track 1: Like ofcourse I take a risk, but it feels worth it.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:It pays off. Like I'm a hundred percent convinced. It actually pays off, up toa point, because by giving stuff for free, you're just having a bettercredibility as a professional. It depends on what you're sharing, but it'sdefinitely putting you on the map
Track 1: Yeah.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:a worker that doesn't share anything and keep everything from yourself.
Track 1: Yeah.
Track 1: Collin, I.Appreciate you jumping in there. 'cause I have a very similar personality toyou.
Track 1: Like I'lljust, I'll give my last dollar type deal too if someone needs it. I'm trying tofigure [00:25:00] out how do I balance out allof the needs that people have and my
Track 1: Yeah.
Track 1: instinct towant to say, yeah, I got you.
Track 1: Don't youworry.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:That used to be a Christmas
Track 1: Oh, thanksman.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:he what he see right there. But you see how much giving he's done
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Yeah.
Track 1: Oh.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:down to the last ornament,
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:giving all the ornaments, the pine needles, and now I'm stuck with CharlieBrown's little trait.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:his
Track 1: Yeah, you'rejust, it's minimal. It's minimalistic.
Track 1: Yeah, that'sexactly
Track 1: It's,
Track 1: all theseJordans behind me. Very minimalistic
Track 1: I was gonnasay, compensating your Jordan collection behind you.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:he draws the line. That's the boundaries he was talking about earlier. He said,
Track 1: Yeah.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:the tree, but the Jordan stay.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Yeah, we're not leaving the Jordans.
Track 1: I amwondering what your product marketing boundary is, Eric. It's probably thinkit's like as long as I can have like sick animations or as long as my techstack, you don't touch user evidence or something like that. Like I can, [00:26:00] I'll do whatever you want. Just don'ttouch this
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:dude, that's a hard line for me. You try to take user evidence. I'm gonna haveto start applying to some new companies. But no, I'd say, honestly for me, Ilike don't have one.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:That's my problem, is I will just continually be the yes man. And
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:course, definitely put me in a position that I'm in now where I'm doing a lotmore digital, I'm doing a lot more demand gen.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I'm doing a lot
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:than what I'd like to do.
Track 1: THat makesme think do of you follow Grant Duncan? He's a. Really great follow on LinkedInand VP of marketing, friend of mine, Duncan. Yeah he, he actually started as aproduct marketer and has moved, now he's in uh, VC and we were talking yesterday, and this is maybe a littleoverplayed but I think it's still helpful.
Track 1: Like was essentially giving me some adviceon juggling priorities and all the same stuff, and he was encouraged like, Hey,if you ask the question, when you get a request from your boss, have you askedthe question like, [00:27:00] Hey, I'm okay with doing that. Are you okay?If this is the trade off? And I'm not great at that.
Track 1: Sometimes I'm just like, all right, there'sonly three days left in this week. I'm just gonna cram it in this imaginaryday. But I'm trying to get better at that because I think Eric, I'm like you inthat front, like where you can ask Yeah, sure. I'm happy to try to stand upthat plan or that battlecard or whatever it may be.
Track 1: But it'sgonna push this back. Is that okay? And most of the time they're not actuallyokay with it. 'cause your priorities are good and they'll be like, ohnevermind. We'll find something different. Or they'll say, yeah, it's worth it.That's coming from a hypocrite. I've not done that yet. I'm trying to do that.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:That's all right. Then we're gonna all try it together.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Lightning.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Around coming up next.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Diddy. Oh, we
Track 1: got a lightning round.
Track 1: Oh, let's
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:go.
Track 1: All right so
Track 1: I'm so scared.
Track 1: Every single guest gets a lightning round.tHe real purpose is to put you in a position to pick either or. You're notallowed to weasel your way out of it, and you've gotta pick one of the, one ofthe solutions for each question.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:reAlly liked,
Track 1: So I can't [00:28:00]do what I did earlier.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:No.
Track 1: That's fair.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:freebie we gave you.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I would say out of all of theguests we've had so far, you are going to get the. Most quirky set of questionsI could have come up with.
Track 1: Okay. I'm in.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:we're ready. Are you ready togo? Either or? Lightning round.
Track 1: I have butterflies. I'm ready.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:All right, Collin, would you rather have a permanentlysqueaky voice or a laugh? That sounds like a donkey.
Track 1: Laugh. That sounds like a donkey.
Track 1: I already have a squeaky voice though.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006: All right, so next question. Pizza. Withketchup as the only topping or ice cream with pickle juice as the only topping.
Track 1: Ice cream and pickle juice.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Alright, we learning aboutcalling May
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Hard.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:I'm thinking like the a I'mthinking I'm wondering if there's a way, like if the acid and the salt canbalance out the sweetness of the ice cream. So I'm like thinking like, how isthere a way to pair that together?
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:[00:29:00] You'regoing, chef Ramsey. All right. How, if you were a superhero and you had theability to fly only at a maximum of two feet, or the power to turn invisiblewhen no one's looking.
Track 1: Fly at two feet. No doubt.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:It's like a hoverboard
Track 1: I'm a marketer. I wanna be seen. Isn't that.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:All right. You only listen toone song on repeat for the rest of your life. You've got the option of BabyShark or the Mariah CareyChristmas jingle. All I Want for Christmas.
Track 1: Right. Carey Christmas jingle. That washard, but yeah. Carey Christmas jingle, at least don't care what you say, thatsong is tired, but she can sing
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:That's true and
Track 1: and I already ha I've been through thetoddler phase. Like I've got a 4-year-old and like we had baby shark. That's apit. You don't want that.
Track 1: tasted that.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Yeah.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:good advice is [00:30:00] Ihave a son on the way. No baby shark for him. Sounds good.
Track 1: If you could dodge that bullet in, like thewiggles, those are two bullets. I'm just gonna encourage you to try to dodge.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Are they still on
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Salad?
Track 1: cycled through the cast.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Yummy. Yummy. Yeah, I used towatch that. All right, so next question. Would you rather have hair made ofspaghetti that regrows when you eat it? Or can only wear a traffic cone on yourhead when you go out in public?
Track 1: I think the spaghetti hair seems like anoption. I have no hair currently, so that feels like it might be like a move inthe right direction, but the cone could be a fit. I'm gonna do spaghetti hairthough.
Track 1: Spaghetti here. Yeah,
Track 1: economic.
Track 1: go there too. Mainly just 'cause of thenutritional aspect. Who needs to stop
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:at McDonald's
Track 1: anymore?
Track 1: Yeah, the cash,
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:You go to the barber, and thenyou have a meal prep for the week. You good?
(Thisis where to add cloud recording)
Track 1: well, howhow fast does it [00:31:00] grow? Like, are wetalking, like, is there a stage of spaghetti stubble like what I have rightnow? Or is it like Normal hair growth.
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:We'll do normal hair growth.
Track 1: Nothing. Um,That could be tough. I'll take it, but it's tough.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:You're like, just give me some hair, I guess. What as long as it grows, it itworks for me. Right? Um, alright. Let's think about time traveling.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Would you rather go back into the past or go into the future? And keep in mind,you don't have a way to get back to the present. Past. Alright.
Track 1: Historybuff, It's not even history.
Track 1: I thinkthere's just I don't know. Maybe this means I'm tortured, but I was like,there's just opportunity. There's things I'd wanna do differently. And so if Icould If I could. I don't know.
Track 1: Maybe it'snot that. Maybe it's like you're talking errors, but in my mind, I'm thinkinglike, can I go back to eighteen and think about my life differently?
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Okay. Why? Deep.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I like that. We got it. Yeah. We did go have deep guest [00:32:00] today, guys. And I'm gonna I'm gonna hit him with thedeepest question of them all.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:You've got a third eye. You get your choice. Have it in the middle of yourforehead, you can see into the future or put it in the back of your head andhear what everyone's thinking.
Track 1: Uh, middleof my head, seeing in the future. Well, yeah.
Track 1: We'retalking about sheer about can I well, if it's in the back of my head, can Ihide it with a hat? Oh,
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:yeah. Yeah. You can you can keep it hidden. There's no, Reason to show it tothe world.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:It's more of the gain that you get. Right? I don't wanna know what everyone'sin the future. Or you get to know what her wife's thinking when she says I'mfine. Imagine
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:planning a launch with the eye in the forehead would be
Track 1: amazing,man.
Track 1: Always justhitting on runs? I
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I don't know. The launch feature was was bad. Right? That'd be useful.
Track 1: That'd besuper
useful.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Alright. Cool. Now, Collin, thank you for for joining the uncomfortablelightning round of either or. I think you [00:33:00]did very well, and, um, you let the audience know more of Of you as as agentleman.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:So I appreciate that, man.
Track 1: Uh, I'mhonored. I was ex I was definitely expecting, Marketing questions or productmarketing questions there. So that was I would fasten
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:my ear. I did that the last two times.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:don't know, Collin. Read read the title of the podcast, man. I was
Track 1: about to saythat. We're
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:in
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:No. But you do.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:I will say this, especially for our listeners. Make sure you watch AnthonyPierri's episode where I give him a full two minutes of torture. The mostpainful torture you've ever seen for someone who spends their day inpositioning and messaging. I I will I will for
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:him. Amazing.
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:Uh, thanks again for your time, Collin. I think it was an amazing episode. And,uh, yeah, we we are stoked. We will We're really stoked to to have you.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:And Oh, sorry.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:Pleasure. But before you [00:34:00] hop,Collin, Um, like, we already know Mrs. Mayjack knows how to stay connected withyou. But for our guests, I want to, um, follow along on what more you can shareabout Your journey at, uh, the tar the tarot, your being a founding productmarketer, any other insights beyond that couldn't be shared here today. Yeah.How do we connect with you?
Track 1: Yeah. Rightnow, the only real place to to find me on that level would be LinkedIn. I havesome other stuff in the works. Uh, but, yeah, you can Followed me, connect withme on LinkedIn. My last name is, month of May, jack of all trades, Mayjack.
Track 1: So It'sprobably the only one on there. I think it's the only one on there. So, yeah,Collin Mayjack on LinkedIn.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Yeah. He's like Definitely give him a follow if you want
Track 1: Importantdistinction.
Track 1: Nearlydodged a bullet there. No. It's two
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:l's. Okay. They can't trump them if they've got one.
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:They could be connecting the wrong [00:35:00]Collin Mayjack if we didn't have that clarification.
squadcaster-ficc_1_12-07-2023_154006:Well, Collin, thank you again, man. I know I personally love this call, learneda lot myself, and it was really cool to just really Pull the curtain back onyou and see what your life's like, man. So, oh, appreciate
Track 1: likewiseguys. This feels overdue and we'd love to chat again sometime.
Track 1: Plug
gab_1_12-07-2023_154007:this in. Looking forward
zach---he-him-_1_12-07-2023_124007:to it. Take care,