Data is crucial for product marketers to take the right decisions. The three misfits are covering the impact of data and how it can be a powerful tool to fuel your storytelling. In this episode, we’re sharing our past experiences and challenges with data, the balance between creativity and metrics, and the relationship between gut feeling and hard work.
In this episode, we cover:
If you’re looking to understand the different layers of data analytics for product marketers, this is the episode for you!
P.S. No video this week because of technical issues :(
Insights, not data alone. The difference why it makes you amore persuasive storyteller?
Track 1: [00:00:00] It to be this immediate aha momentthat's gonna open up the door. And it'd be like, you're right. Like I needthat. And
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Holland here you're one and only
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Franken
Track 1: and I thinkthat's a problem we have, I've seen today as a product marketer, is that
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Sales deck intern. Still going.
Track 1: to prove apoint without any context as to why that should matter to the buyer themselves.
Track 1: And I'mgonna stop right there 'cause I'm curious to hear like what you guys think, um,what you guys think about that.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:01:00] Just. [00:02:00]I can tell you right now, especially your example, talking about the, therevenue teams, particularly sales. You know, context is huge. And when you'retalking to buyers,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:um,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I saw an example a week or two ago, and it was a lead gen
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:type service. talked about how you, you know, you get a 80% increase in yourpipeline or whatever like that.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And, you know, to me that's, that's huge. Depending on the context, like yousaid,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:um,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:in my past, uh, employer or two employers ago, I guess.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:03:00] you're
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:getting 400 ish, 500 leads, roughly a month coming in. Right? So 80% to that,that's,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:that's huge. You're going from, you know, four to five to, I think, quick maththere is around eight to nine. Um, and so a lot of ways that's
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:a big jump when you think about it. If you go to my most recent
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:situation,
Track 1: yeah.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I mean, it was like
Track 1: Yeah.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:10 maybe leads a month, eight leads a month, five leads a month. Right? So whenyou talk about, um, 80% in that situation, um, that's not a lot. And then whenyou actually probe this
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:company's data,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:who was giving that 80% statistics right off the bat on their homepage, it wasa situation like that where they
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:really were only,
Track 1: And, um, I'mgonna, and I'm like, I like, I love what you guys said here, because next whatI'm gonna do is I'm gonna share like an after
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:around that,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know,
Track 1: Of
Track 1: what, [00:04:00] what I learned
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:and when you look at that context, like, I'm gonna be honest with you, as asales,
Track 1: later helped
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:doing sales and Zach, I'll let you chime in here. Knowing I go from eight to 13isn't a big boost of confidence when I'm out there on the field every daypitching a product and
Track 1: that year.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know,
Track 1: Um,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:um,
Track 1: and what Ilearned, it was like one component of that play. We created a data sheet. Wecreated this data sheet to highlight, Hey, here are the challenges thatorganizations are having with cybersecurity.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the data,
Track 1: And
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:You are
Track 1: we had fivebig stats,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:That is telling me
Track 1: the statsworked in a few ways is one,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you don't always
Track 1: is why we're
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:in that situation.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:I'm sure you,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you had like
Track 1: this problem
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:documentation of that statistic, I
Track 1: but the, thesecond,
Track 1: the moreimportant piece of that
Track 1: was thentalking to
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:sometimes I'm just asking where does that
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:data come from?
Track 1: this may notbe the
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:surface level. I'm start asking questions, digging a little bit.
Track 1: a
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:like,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:it's not a strong
Track 1: they havethe proper controls and tools in place where.
Track 1: They're not
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:take like a PhD [00:05:00] to understand that.
Track 1: they're not
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:A lot of people, especially
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:companies, are
Track 1: So
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:boosting out
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:their numbers. Those are rookie numbers. You know, they are, they are saying abunch of stuff
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:that
Track 1: then take astep back and
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:least from a prospect
Track 1: we're seeingthis in the market.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:to validate if true
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:or not.
Track 1: your initial
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Um, so
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:that's kind of my point of view
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:more
Track 1: does this
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the general eye when you, you start pitching
Track 1: And thedifference from before was.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:ultimately it's, it's something that
Track 1: Before I wasalways using data
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you control
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:and the more context you can put around
Track 1: Anotheravenue that
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:The better the data
Track 1: how I coulduse data
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:and will be
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:trustworthy
Track 1: I thinkthat's where one way product marketers could be more effective for sellers oflike, yes, providing them the market intelligence, but also giving themguidance and how to use it in a conversation with that context in mind, becausesellers and product marketers were looking for the same thing.
Track 1: We'relooking to help provide context of how our solution is gonna help the buyer. [00:06:00] So, um, I'm stopping right there. I'mcurious to hear what you guys think about that.[00:07:00]
Track 1: Yes.
Track 1: Yeah.
Track 1: Yes. Andgab. I really like that because when we say positioning of the positioning,it's like what is our why? Like why are we having this conversation? And likethe def like defining that positioning, like what we know is like you're usingreference reference points to make it easier for your customers to understandyour product.
Track 1: And shout
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:jump real quick to
Track 1: Perri if youguys haven't checked
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:I just want to kind of piggyback a little bit on. Um,
Track 1: like.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you talked [00:08:00] about the fact that
Track 1: That's,that's the word, the definition I got. But I really
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you wait for the prospect
Track 1: that's,
Track 1: I got it.What you mean? I got
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Like ask them, how
Track 1: after thatconversation. We had him a few weeks ago.
Track 1: Hell yeah. Igot
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:a
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:step a little bit further
Track 1: I'm like,
Track 1: and
Track 1: it, it was,it was really great.
Track 1: 'cause likewhen you say
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:April Dunford,
Track 1: referencepoints and data
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:has, uh,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:an amazing podcast
Track 1: but like
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:with April Dunford.
Track 1: you usethose ref, like how are you using those reference points? If that's what'sgonna get you that insight.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the fact that if you're bringing unique market insight, not just statistic, butreally from your point of view,
Track 1: or what yourcompetitors may
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:for example, those old dinosaurs,
Track 1: too.
Track 1: So, and then
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:SaaS solutions are asking you to do
Track 1: explored.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:a, a really full of friction process of, for example, and then you're able toreally kind of associate those market insight with your point of view. And thenyou are able to kind of control the narrative. If those prospects agree, thenit's, the sale [00:09:00] will be easier. Andagain, you can read the book, but this is just something I wanted to kind ofpiggyback on. If you understand that it's because you're the same positioning,it's because you're, you are able to help sales leverage positioning, and thenwith that, you are both talking the same language and you can just be moresuccessful by leveraging that data. Did you get it? Nice, [00:10:00] amazing.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, in Zach, I wanna take this conversation 'cause you, you mentionedsomething that I have actually personally been growing into, and you've beenactually uh, kind of instrumental in doing this in, in, in almost in every way,every day kind of situation, whether it's data or not. But you could prove yourpoint with data, right?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And like attack your research with [00:11:00]This almost like vindictive, I got a point to prove mentality. Or you can
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:look at your research approach
Track 1: that.
Track 1: I'm
Track 1: gonna,switching gears a little bit,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:things that can
Track 1: we're gonna,we're gonna throw another perspective in
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you may even be lucky enough to find
Track 1: product
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:stuff that change your beliefs. But then you bring that data and you say, howdo you feel about that?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Right?
Track 1: One thread,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:have a problem that.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:we're trying to address. Here's some data.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:How do you feel about how that addresses that
Track 1: SaaS space,is that
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I find that that has been
Track 1: usingmetrics to justify our ROI
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:and I would advise all young pmms, especially who are
Track 1: the uniquespace
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:at that approach.
Track 1: We want tomeasure everything, but I think there's now this
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:just go ahead and
Track 1: now is thatdon't let
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:then you start that dialogue.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:You have a conversation,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you get other opinions involved,
Track 1: examplebeing like, I,
Track 1: I waslistening to Devin Re, um, and he like leads
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And it comes down to then making
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:a really good decision.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:an example was,
Track 1: a lot of thework they do,
Track 1: [00:12:00] like in terms
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:We were in a toss up between procurement and spend management,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:right?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And,
Track 1: or doing arebrand.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know, there was a lot of stuff
Track 1: And likewe're, we've got a podcast, it's really hard to justify to your founder
Track 1: why you
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:know, happening from my perspective is I pulled all of
Track 1: how muchrevenues this
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:instead of just
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:the ones that fit my narrative and the hypothesis I was
Track 1: We ain'tmaking money
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Um. We had a conversation about it.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Right.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And I think whether you're working with sales,
Track 1: not yet. Yousay like, let's put that affirmation out there,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:um,
Track 1: but it'slike,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I've found more
Track 1: You don'twhat you do see,
Track 1: and whatwe're starting to see is like you start seeing.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:many as you can
Track 1: Brandbuilding, you
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:let's have a conversation.
Track 1: rally around
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:love that. Love how you brought that up.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And, uh, you do that every day. You always,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you're dropping it
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:in our WhatsApp, what do you guys think about this? Right. And it's, um,
Track 1: So then
Track 1: my questionis, is that like how do you
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:helped me out in a lot of different
Track 1: at, like atwhat times do you acknowledge data metrics to [00:13:00]measure performance, but don't let that dictate. An an objective that youbelieve will help the organization move forward.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:14:00] Not yet.
Track 1: [00:15:00] No.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Well, I think, you know, for me, I'm a, I'm a wild card because I like to use alot of gut in my decision making, whether that be in business. I. Personal liferegardless, doesn't matter. Um, and you kind of nailed it like from a creativeperspective, I think we're at that point in, in history where creativity isgoing to rule the day, right?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:You've got robots who can write for you now and are creating out the mostcookie cutter, nonsensical verbiage I've seen in a long time. Um, you've got.You know, honestly, people who are strained and have a lot of work that theyneed to do with limited resources, and I think the creative part of it issomething that you, you can't miss out on.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:So when I look at any initiative, I'm always looking at like, [00:16:00] what is our competition doing really,really well, right? Like, do they have a podcast already? If that answer isyes, then the question is. How good are they right? Because then it, it, it, itgives me some, some instance to say, well, they've got a podcast and we'vetalked to, you know, 50 customers, 20 x win-loss reviews on this, and no one'sactually watching their podcast. So, although I can't come to you with a greatsense of certainty that this is going to be a hit, what I can say is ourcompetition has not filled that gap in the marketplace yet. So it's a littlebit of, you know. I think intuition and then obviously using, using those datapoints at your exposure. Um, and, and I've always felt like a happy blend ofboth is what gets you the best success. Um, you know, so that's my take on it.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:17:00] I like that take, um, the domain. Ithink it's more about, it's going back. I think it just all goes back to howthe organization is set up. Like if you don't have access to the right data, ifthere's a lot of missing gaps. Which happens a lot more than we think. What canyou do? Like I'm not talking about changing the narrative that like a lot ofour initiatives take time to ultimately see the light of day or seeing likemeaningful results.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Like if you started podcasts and you guys were telling me, Hey, It. We're goingto know if things work in within a month or so. I'll be like, I think it's alot more than that. Like those initiatives, you need to just be consistent withit, whatever it's posted on LinkedIn, podcasting, whatever else. Um, but Ithink it's just all about narrowing things down.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:What move the needle at the end of the day? Is it revenue? Is it what [00:18:00] will influence company grow? And then howdoes that falls into the PMM plates? So. I don't have an answer for this. Thisis something I've been, I've been struggling for the majority of my career andlike I just for transparency, I, I suck at data analytics. Like I do it, I tryto get better at it, but it's always something that I struggle with. Um, but
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:I just think it's all. about understanding
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the expectations, understanding that you cannot track everything. Thennarrowing it to like one main goal that you know that this domino, if it fallsto true a row of dominoes, ultimately you'll be able to have a pretty big bruteforce at the end, uh, towards
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:your goals.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Gab, I wanna hop in. 'cause you, you also pointed out something that was, Iwasn't thinking about. I think product
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:marketers, if you look at Uh, and even mark the marketing function since a lotof [00:19:00] us sit underneath, you know, thatbudget, we're not given a lot of resources, which allow us to track ourinitiatives, right?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:A lot of those metrics are kind of set for, for, you know, the
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:demand
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:gen side of things and, and the sales side of things, right? So if we canattach
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:certain things
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:within the
Track 1: You don't,oh, go ahead.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:great. But, you know, I, I think. That's really, really hard
Track 1: Well, look,look. So like here, the, here, the here. This one. So what I really like aboutthis too is that,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:given em the budget or those tools
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:aren't really
Track 1: Gab. Youmentioned kind of like
Track 1: the data
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:seismic for example, I've always
Track 1: was reallycool. When I first
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:a seismic or a high spot
Track 1: uh, shortlybefore that I took like a data
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And be able to be like, yeah, look, this is exactly
Track 1: knew that asa sales
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know, many people are,
Track 1: I can talk
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:stuff and engaging with it. But
Track 1: an order.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:at the end of the day, a lot of times that's a . Ends up being a nice to have,especially
Track 1: And I'mlike, Hey, like I want to shore up on that scale. What I think. What was [00:20:00] really cool about that
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you're not privy to the data a lot of times, like you said.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:So you gotta use
Track 1: knowingthat, but learning kind of the framework of how to think through
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, a hundred percent. But I think, and don't want to, to overtake thiswhole,
Track 1: an example,
Track 1: um,
Track 1: going backto Jason Oakley's productive,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:But I, I just think that the opposite is also true. Like I've been in a situsituation where you
Track 1: he has aOKR,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:15 power BIS report in front of you.
Track 1: He gives hisguidance, he's like, Hey, here's your OKR, your okr. It's like, what is your
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:like, I was like,
Track 1: say that ourobjective
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah.
Track 1: we want toestablish thought leadership
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, I agree. Even as a guy who makes quick
Track 1: are yougonna do
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:when I have too much data
Track 1: And the howpiece is like, we're gonna establish thought leadership
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:leader, you know, senior leadership, who's
Track 1: and then.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:the opposite
Track 1: It's a verysimilar,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:They need all of
Track 1: point. It'sa very similar
Track 1: way
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:make a decision
Track 1: analytics.They start, there's a, there's
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:then once they do have all that data,
Track 1: a, likeguiding
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:right?
Track 1: Like beforeyou,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:21:00] what do we,
Track 1: you open upExcel,
Track 1: before
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:God decision.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yep. And that's no decision.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Extra steps basically.
Track 1: gonna ask aquestion of like, okay, like, like how, how? Like how
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:ended on a big boom. That's it.
Track 1: with thispodcast? What are the metrics we want to see from it too? And it helps to giveyou kind of a frame of thinking about, okay, what are the right data pointsthat you want to gather?
Track 1: Will willclick through rate, be relevant to measuring podcasts? Like, like, like thoughtleadership podcast. Probably not, but maybe like listens. Downloads shares, andit really helps to narrow down your focus because then once you have a thatfocus, it makes it easier to tell that story of like, okay, like we had thisOKR at the beginning of establishing thought leadership with our podcast.[00:22:00]
Track 1: Here's like,here's what's been going on and here's what we've been seeing so far, and thisis how it's reflecting to. , that piece of brand building. Going back to whatwe said before, it's like we're not gonna see immediate results within threemonths, but we're gonna start seeing a trend of where maybe you're seeing morefollowers on a LinkedIn company page.
Track 1: Maybe you'reseeing more conversations coming up from different people within your ICP. Youmay start seeing someone say, Hey, like . I'm really excited about thisepisode, or this is the type of content you're looking for. Those are like,those are like qualitative pieces that you can't put on a dashboard, and Ithink it's, it's still especially valuable at the work we do day to [00:23:00] day.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:[00:24:00] Yeah, and I. Love it. And I thinkit's, there's also a part of like, let's say someone reach you out on LinkedInabout like your consultancy, and they're saying, yeah, you know, I've beenseeing the podcast and looking at your LinkedIn post. It just all kind ofcompound together. Can you, and then we fall under the big discussion ofattribution, like what the podcast way more did have more impact on theconversion than Lincoln Post [00:25:00] orwhatever. But I think that it's just a natural part that This tool can help,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:like this initiative can help with tall leadership, can help
Track 1: I'm,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:other elements as well. Um, but I feel like you just have to
Track 1: hold up. Canyou hear me now?
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know, put a little bit, uh, weight on the brake pedal and just zoom out alittle bit. You don't always need to have the data, um, even as a VP.
Track 1: Hold on,hold
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:another thing too, like we had it on an earlier podcast. I forget whichconversation, but product
Track 1: Yo, I'mback. I'm back. I'm back. Look,
Track 1: I'm back.
Track 1: I'm notleaving this
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:You guys know most, if not every single thing
Track 1: because I'm,
Track 1: I'm, I'mabout to say something
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:needs a little bit
Track 1: right now.So.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you can see those
Track 1: That pointyou said about instant
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:know, unless you're getting
Track 1: it feels,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:absurd amount of traffic
Track 1: like a painthat I feel like,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:positioning so drastically that everyone just light bulb moment,
Track 1: it makessense
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you know that the day before [00:26:00] therewas no light bulb
Track 1: we need toprove those
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I can't imagine
Track 1: um, goingback to what you said here about both
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:we put something into play and it's like,
Track 1: marketing isgonna get
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Everyone's freaking out about it because you just need that,
Track 1: And
Track 1: what comesto mind for me
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:and that time. And I would,
Track 1: When
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:that's another problem that I see is, is obviously we want those
Track 1: the weightroom, you're in, you're in high school,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:we spent a
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:whole month talking about it or making fun of it on our, on our page, onLinkedIn.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:They want those leads yesterday.
Track 1: to
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Right? But
Track 1: So what?
Track 1: So whathappens? You're gonna have these adolescent
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And I believe, you know.
Track 1: all crowded
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:organizations have that patience and some of the less best,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:uh, organizations are
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:are
Track 1: What wasthat? Repeat that one more time, GI didn't hear. What was that?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:uh, getting the data back from these initiatives that, that we've instilled
Track 1: Hey look. Ilike, I'm, yo, we, let's, let's, let's go. We [00:27:00]gonna call it echo lifting. So I'm coming there? Yeah.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:well. In the meantime, 'cause it doesn't matter. We can cut this out of our podduring post. Zach, we can't hear you right now.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, I'm not sure what
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Zach. We lost Zach. We lost Zach. But he'll be back. We promise.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Okay, so we're hijacking the discussion right
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:now we take it and talk about what we want.
Track 1: they're,they're
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Oh,
Track 1: gonna thebench press. Mind you, there's
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:he
Track 1: There'sother
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:the data go off
Track 1: exercises inthe weight room, and this is what's happens over time. They're gonna, you'regonna see those, you're gonna see those gains because this is your first timedoing it and you're gonna see that explosive growth.
Track 1: But if youkeep on using the bench press, your, your back's gonna slouch a little bitover. You're gonna have these really big packs, really big tries, but thenyou're gonna have these scrawny legs like scrawny back and. You're more likelyto injure yourself in other functional activities. Let's say you [00:28:00] play basketball, you're playing soccer,and you're like, well, what's going on?
Track 1: Like I'm,I've been in the weight room, how come I'm not scoring this goal? How come Ipull, like hit a Charlie host? How come I pulled my quad? And I think a lotabout that when we think of like early stage startups with founders is that I'mpumping in all this money into our paid advertising. I. , you're gonna seethose results.
Track 1: But at somepoint you're gonna have to look at other functional areas like, Hey, are you,are you, are you working? Are you working like the legs? Are you working yourback?
Track 1: And
Track 1: you cantranslate that to other part of areas
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Oh yeah,
Track 1: productmarketing,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:is, it is the, it's the
Track 1: what doesthat messaging
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:as the first
Track 1: What does,like
Track 1: what are wetalking to the right audience?
Track 1: Are we,like, do we
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:by the way, Zach,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:egg nos, you know, the, uh, the waffles
Track 1: use us
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I thought Zach was gonna
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:say they all go crowd around the, the locker
Track 1: versus
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:and do steroids. 'cause they [00:29:00] want,they want that, they want that quick boost. Right? They're not willing
Track 1: market comesin, product marketing is gonna, is gonna tap you on the shore. It's like, yoman. You are looking pretty good on that bench press, but like, Hey, let's gotry that squat rack.
Track 1: Or like,let's build a plan , like if you, let's, let's be a more functional, like highperform like high performance versus focusing on one aspect that has given youresults, immediate results to months ago. Let's find a balance so that you getthat consistent growth. Because it's not about the intensity of how much yougrow, it's about being consistent and getting that repeatable motion over time.
Track 1: That's whatI think about too. So I'm curious what, what are your thoughts on [00:30:00] that?
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah.
Track 1: Yeah, sobecause you got that nice fade, doesn't mean you're gonna play like ChristianoRonaldo.[00:31:00]
Track 1: Hey, shoutout to God
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yo, I got, I
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Love the.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I got two health nuts in this group with me, so let's keep this conversationgoing. I look at it. Let, let's keep the fitness side going too, right? I lookat this so much as, as like you saw someone else do a workout and it worked forthem, right? Or a diet even, and it worked for them. But as we've talked about,not everyone's Salesforce, not everyone's [00:32:00]HubSpot, because they may have ran that certain play.
Track 1: I'm like,I'm like, you can't run it. You can't run it. Go to market on chicken
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:us, different, you know, different diets that work for us. All that differentstuff comes into play very similarly. What I've learned so far in SaaS is thatyou can't just run the same play as someone a lot bigger than you in acompletely different market, and you definitely shouldn't run the same play anddo the same exercises. That, um, your competitors are doing,
Track 1: Oh, okay.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:at the sense of it all, you have to be doing
Track 1: Oh, it's so
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:you have to be doing it at a repetitive, consistent basis, um,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:as opposed to a set it and forget it
Track 1: I'm like,you gonna enjoy it? So like you just round out this conversation.
Track 1: One more onebecause so far what we've spoken about is alright, like how,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Exactly,
Track 1: how to thinkabout data
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Um, and, and just to follow up on,
Track 1: and while
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the health,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:uh,
Track 1: putting databefore creative initiatives that
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:trying to get big, if you're trying to [00:33:00]lose weight, if you're trying to,
Track 1: And, but thelast one I'm curious about
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:kilometers in Chile and next April, you are going to need to
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:have a plan. Right.
Track 1: in theinstances where you want to,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:try, going to
Track 1: to measureperformance, or maybe you have someone saying
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:the best thing to do that
Track 1: data doesn'tmatter.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:my best, uh,
Track 1: noteverything's data.
Track 1: I can, I'm,I've heard that before and, and hearing you guys,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:my micros, count my calories,
Track 1: I've come toa space now where I can see like, hey, there's gonna be some instances
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:and basically like it just circled back
Track 1: but itshould, we should still kind of
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:know where you're going. You need what your starting point is, and
Track 1: how we aremoving
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:that on a recurring basis.
Track 1: if we aretrending towards the right track here
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:summarize it a little bit, what we all
Track 1: help like,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:uh, but especially what you said,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Zach, founders,
Track 1: increase ourfocus on the right activities of what we're doing here. That's what, that'swhat I've kind, I've kind of, that's where my aha moment and where my opinionhas changed after like talking with you all.
Track 1: I'm curiouslike.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:likes chicken legs
Track 1: What, whatother [00:34:00] like last, like last thoughtscome to mind from what we've talked discussed here so far?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Well, yeah, we gotta get you some of that Kentucky Fried Chicken down here, gabBoy.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:I'm, I'm actually doing a, a cooking class on Monday, uh, to, is Japanese like,uh, the type of cuisine and they have, I think it's car, a fried chicken. Yeah,I'm excited. That's why I talk about it.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Dude. That's awesome. That is awesome.
Track 1: Oh, [00:35:00] remember.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Um, not sure if Eric wanted to say something, but you said that in someoccasion, uh, and you've been told that data doesn't [00:36:00]matter. So if there are some, well, for the pmms, we have an audience. Now Ican say it, but for the pmms listening to the, to this podcast. Um, can we givethem some example of situation where they can kind of come back to their bossor founders or whatever and say, I, I believe that with my expertise with theprojects we have going on in that specific use case that I don't matter,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:I got one, so,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:away.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:so you guys might have remembered. I threw
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:a party. Procurement, uh, I don't know, in October,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:right? I had no, I had, other than
Track 1: what? Eric?
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:lavender's
Track 1: That's myanswer, y'all.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:from their parties, I had no data to go off of. Right. Um, a lot of convincing,I don't even know how many hours were spent just like pleading this idea. [00:37:00] And long story short, for anyonelistening, I. You took the same approach or I took the same approach as aproduct marketer would. I looked at the audience that was going, I figured outwhat they really cared about and what pains they had that were gonna be going.And I, the solution was a cool party, right? And at the end of that, we endedup walking away with the more than the enough leads that were being asked outof me. Which was great,
Track 1: So the TLDRis, if you want that
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:was even yesterday when I was talking to someone completely different about ajob opportunity, they said, Hey, I saw your party a few months ago that youdid.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:That was freaking awesome. And I've heard it on numerous occasions fromnumerous people both at the event, the day after the event, weeks, even now,months
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:after that, that was a hit.
Track 1: hey, we'llwait. We'll, we'll have a nice, we'll have a
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:now recognized in that industry, in that space. And it was more or less donewith a gut, a [00:38:00] gut, um, feeling, anda lot of hard work.
Track 1: Yeah, go.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:would say that's an instance that I would drop right away, um, in which, youknow, you, you don't necessarily have all of the numbers in front of you, butif you've got a little bit of confidence, um, that things will work out. Ifyou've got the right people in place, go ahead and do it. You know, let herrip.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:You never know what'll happen.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Amazing. Thank you.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Well, and if you want, if, if the listeners want something that's not, youknow, from me personally, go check out the lavender story. I think it wasSaster they went to and they threw a party for the first time. Immediately gottheir, like seed funding a week later, immediately got their series A, I thinkit was around 10 to 12 million right after that, like three weeks after that.Not like three months or a year. I mean, boom, boom. So if you guys wantsomething, [00:39:00] um, you know, a littlebit more meaty, go read that story. It's, it's super inspirational about justkind of going for something that you didn't have, uh, you know, the ROI topredict on the front end. Yeah, I'd just say everyone throw a party, right?Millennials will get it. We'll have fun.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, exactly.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:And the, you know,
Track 1: For thenext,
Track 1: for the nextseven years,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:So the boomers listening, you can come to, you can come to
Track 1: intoperpetuity. We're gonna use it forever.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:They're just tired. They want to get wasted. We get it. We get it.
Track 1: Well, y'all,it's been a dope conversation,
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:I'm excited for mine.
Track 1: everyone forhopping onto this.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:in 30. 30,
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Do you guys mind if I, you guys mind if I throw a shameless plug in
Track 1: is Zachsigning out
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Let's go.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:All right, so
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:we were talking earlier about context, especially talking around how it was,you know, sales team. Focus, revenue team focus, things like that. [00:40:00] So, um, shout out to my friends at userevidence. Um, what I've been able to do with them this year was pretty cool interms
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:of that contextual
Track 1: See youguys.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:right? I get a lot of feedback from surveys and then I can create content ondemand. Awesome. But you know, when you use those statistics, like 66% of blahor 80% of blah, right? What's really cool about user evidence is they attachwithin that content piece exactly how many people were surveyed in that survey.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Right? And then what I actually would done, to take it a step further is gowithin the, the copy of that and put additional context, right? So it says 256,you know, procurement users, for example, or Lucid Link users and . Essentiallythat doesn't give you a lot of context of who those users were. So I put theadditional piece in on the persona that we surveyed.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Right? And that's just an example of ways that you can provide, [00:41:00] you know, I think a juicier robust pieceof context for your revenue teams to go to go to bat with, as opposed to like,Hey, here's this stat that one customer said they got one thing from, let's usethat on every conversation, which I've also.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Been that experience as well.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Oh yeah. Oh man. Won't even go there.
eric_1_01-04-2024_145711:Yeah, I just wanna say thanks for putting up with the Franken marketer and his,um, pregnancy beard. He's not officially getting this fully trimmed till hisson is here. So appreciate y'all.
gab_1_01-04-2024_145711:Amazing. Cheers. Thank [00:42:00] you.