Aligning revenue targets to your job as a PMM can be very difficult to do in some organizations. But, there are a couple ways to focus on revenue and succeed in your job. Competitive intelligence (CI) is one way to get it done. Clara Smyth is considered by us the Mom of CI— she is the Director of Competitive Enablement at Klue and host of the Back Office to Boardroom podcast. She shows how to use competitive intelligence to better align revenue goals within your PMM role.
In this episode, we cover:
If you want to see the pillars between CI and PMM, get how to use them to better influence revenue growth, and what the ideal structure of a CI team should look like, then brace yourself for Clara’s masterclass on this episode.
How PMMs can tie revenue with competitive intelligence
[00:00:00]
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Happy Friday everybody. We got another episode of We're Not Marketers and it'sa special one because it's first episode where I can say I'm a daddy and notget in trouble by HR. So this is an awesome day and not only because of that,we also have the wonderful Clara Smyth on with the Misfits today and we've gota whole bunch of talk about, so wanna do some quick intros.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:If you're not familiar with the show, I'm Eric Holland, the Frankenmarketer ofthe group. I'll toss it over to Zach.
Track 1: Eric, thanksso much. This is Zach. I'm the, I'm not the sales water-boy. I always keep ontaking
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Oh, you are
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:the water-boy.
Track 1: [00:01:00] am the water-boy. Okay, I guess I am thewater keeping everybody hydrated for the next one-pager that got it right here.So gonna pass it over to Gab as well
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:You are providing the water for the upcoming Super Bowl.
Track 1: If they letme on the field.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:Exactly. Gab Bujold sales deck intern. As always, I just do sales deck until Idie.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Yes, and we're all dead here, so it's proof that. Sales decks will kill you.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:But hey, we've got a special glass, like I said, Clara Smyth.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I'll just be really frank. I call myself a deck dork. I haven't even introducedmyself, but that's my nickname on street.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Wait, did you say a deck dork?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah,
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:that's me right here.
Track 1: Oh,
Track 1: that's ourfirst.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:is that self-imposed
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:or.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah. Self-sarcasm too. Just calling it as it is where I live and breathe.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Oh, I love that. The deck dork Clara Smyth is on the show with us today. And ifyou guys aren't [00:02:00] familiar, I actuallybreak it down. When I talk to my fiance as she's the mom of CI and she's gotall these little children, right? And you may know a few of 'em, but I call herthe mom of CI and currently she's with Klue, love, Klue. Also part of them rightnow. So no bias here on the show, but we do, oh, we got the Coffee &Compete right there. And before she come into Klue, Clara has definitely been abig voice in the industry. You may have seen her at Slack before that. She wasin the finance world with NetSuite. I'll toss it you to Clara and give peopleany other color you'd like to add.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Thank you so much, Gab, Zach, and Eric for having me today.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Hi everybody, my name is Clara Smyth and just like Eric started off the show,I'm definitely a misfit. I have had a very interesting career over the past 10to 12 years of finding my way into competitive intelligence, finding my wayinto marketing- kicking and screaming.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:'cause I never wanted to be in marketing in the first place. But also [00:03:00] coming to terms with understanding therole that CI in marketing and all departments play in beating your competitionday in and day out. I love that you call me a mom because I constantly wannaraise people up in the industry and break down the secrecy of CI. There'salways been this, lock it down and hide it. And I have a lot of moms, likesecret moms who've raised me up, but don't wanna be known. And I definitelywanna break that down and raise up the next generation of CI practitioners.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Oh, I love it. I'm one of your sons. So
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:honored.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:I'm glad I wouldn't want another Compete mom in my whole life. And we have onebig burning question that we like to ask all of our guests. And Gab, we like togive him the microphone for the honor. So go ahead bud.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:Thank you.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:Clara are product marketers, actually marketers- why or why not?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Absolutely not. That would
Track 1: Ooh.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:my hardcore real stance that they're not marketers. Everybody's doing thevictory [00:04:00] dance right here, Eric's.go. Let's go. I'm biased. I'm biased because I have that competitiveintelligence and competitive enablement. A view of product marketing. Forexample, I came from Slack about a year ago, and my title, no joke, had ahyphen in it, and it was senior product marketing manager - competitiveintelligence, right? And so theclassic thinking is, because you create content, you should be in marketing,right? That's the 101 logic that I've had bosses tell me in the past. But Idefinitely like to challenge that because competitive intelligence and productmarketing is not only used and needed by the whole organization, but if it'sselfish-facing, it's less effective.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:It has to be selfless and it hasto go beyond its own walls and actually have OKRs and KPIs beyond just theclassic marketing KPIs. And so that would be my hot response of whyproduct marketers and why CI and CE professionals are not marketers. It's. [00:05:00] Because their soul is to the organizationand not to the department.
Track 1: What are the KPIs that are not beingcaptured in marketing that you feel that is unique to CI?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, so for me, I've always betmy entire career, Zach, on CI for Rev Gen roles, which is how I've saved my jobtime and time again. And so you can of course add a target there if you'recomfortable. Amount of revenue influence by competitive support, whether hightouch or at scale through competitive content.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Many ways you can break that up.There's also additional levers like. Product roadmap features accelerated forexamples or number of product briefs created or number of presentations donefor exec suites, right? I've done that before as well. And so there's softerand harder metrics depending on what you're comfortable with, your maturity,and most importantly, the state and nature of your organization.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:I love this. Is it something that you decided to implement for yourself just tomake sure you could protect and secure your role ultimately? Or is it more thatyou really wanted to show value, so you [00:06:00]decided to really find some specific pillars where you could show, hey, this ishow much influence revenue in that org add that specific point in time?
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:I.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I think it could be both, Gab, right? It could be a little bit of both, right?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Wanting to protect myself and also wanting to showcase value andcompetitiveness against my peers and within the organization. So I would say acouple jobs ago it was. Definitely coming from a protective stance. I hadstarted my career in actually product, and so product had the budget to hire acompetitive intelligence professional, and they leaned on me as the enterprisedemand gen marketer who knew the industry really well.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And then I flipped to become a competitive intelligence practitioner under theproduct department. And then ironically, because I was creating content andwanting to go beyond product, marketing scoop me up, right? But for me. My soulwas always to the organization. And to answer your question, when I started working with sales, I beganto keep everybody else honest who needed competitive intelligence across theorganization. And so it wasn't just about [00:07:00]me and my metrics and mypersonality and everything that I bring to the table, but it was actuallyaround how do we all close business together and create something I call aboard deck pack that includes both tactical and strategic competitiveintelligence.
Track 1: It almostsounds like you're describing like a corporate version of Goldilocks andThree Bears where you were at product and it was like, oh, this is too hot.And now you went into marketing, so this is too cold. And now sales. It soundslike it was just right to be with sales. Am I, is that what we're hearing here?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, Zach, that's a really cute reference. I love that. And also like the MamaBear, Eric, I think that all comes together.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:There we.
Track 1: gonna writea book by the time we're end, we're done with this conversation here. I likethe direct, we're going so far.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Absolutely.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Clara I'm a little curious'cause I've never heard that before. Like product marketing is, their intent isto be selfless. And you said like your soul is for the [00:08:00] company.Unpack that a little bit more. Like when did you start using that? I reallylike it. Obviously there's going to be a post on my LinkedIn over the next weekor so that talks about that approach.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Your view of selfish KPIs foryour specific department versus like really looking at the business andrallying the troops and making sure everyone's goals are met.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:where'd that come from and howlong you been using it?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, I would say I've termed itjust for you all today. So this is hot off the press, however, it's beendeep-seeded through corporate PTSD, so that's a little bit about me. I mean,There's always win stories and also lost stories.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I'm making a double entendreabout win-loss, but also near personal career. There's things that you know,you'll, you'll die on the hill for, and there's other things that you'll letpass. And for me, working with sales was always something that I wanted to dieon the hill for and for me. I always wanted to be humble by what sales did andwhat they said and how our buyers kept that organization [00:09:00] honest.And to your point, Eric, I think if you're very selfish-facing of Hey, Ineed competitive intelligence for my release, or, Hey, I needcompetitive intelligence for my product roadmap, it'll never be cleaned,calibrated, or contextualized across the organization. And that for me is whereI had. Seriously moved towards sales and at what point during my career,actually reported into sales leadership as like a semi sales engineer as a valueadded function within the sales organization.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And the reason why that was thecase was we had to be kept honest by sellers and buyers in order to be moreeffective on the board level and more effective in the exec suite. Because I'vehad execs who are like. If you come in here and talk about a SWOT or a Porter'sfive force analysis or whatever the case is, I'm gonna laugh at you.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I'm gonna laugh you out of theroom. And the reason why is because my butt is on the line in terms of the board. And I also wanna know whyare we winning or losing in the field? Is competitive intelligence andcertification scaled and is [00:10:00] everybody ready with what that one elevatorpitch is against the competition company-wide?
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Dang.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:And you dropped the three Cs and you dropped the three Cs on us. Did you makethat up too?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I did, but I think it has to do with Clara. And Clara means clear and bright,so I always try to keep things like straight into the punch. And so maybe it'sthe C'S. Also something that we'll start off today.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:All right. It's Friday. Our minds are flowing nicely, it sounds. She's droppingher little Clara-ism's on us just out of nowhere. All right so I got a prettybig question for you. So, So I looked at,obviously your career. As you said too, you had a hyphen next to your name andyou were in a team where you had, moving parts and pieces. So haveyou been in a situation where you've had that ideal structure for CI and, andhow it's built and how it lives? And if not, what does your structure look likeand how would you implement it?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah. Eric, I'm so glad youbring this up and caveat here, my answer, as much as I wanna make it like theanswer, it's gonna be different for every organization, and I can see people'seyes rolling like far out in every state and every country in the world. Comeon [00:11:00] Clara, you're not giving me a clear answer. But when I've gone to competitiveintelligence and also product marketing conferences out there. It's always beensplit. There's never a clear, definitive response. And they've even done pollslive in the room and surveys scaled out to hundreds of Compete practitioners. And it's always been splitaround
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:we report into product, wereport into sales, we report into marketing, and then we report into strategy.So there's typically those four big buckets there. And to your point,for me, I always found such a home withsales because if I could test my differentiation, if I could test. My newpositioning and my feature function comparisons and my latest elevator pitcheswith live deals today, I'll be that much stronger at the next sales QBR or I'llbe that much stronger at the next sales kickoff, or I'll be that much morehumbled around what didn't work so I could come back and enroll people in thatmutual success versus if I came in on the ivory tower and said, I only work instrategy.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I only work up there. I think Iwould be less [00:12:00] effective. And there's this common talk oflike strategy versus tactical and competitive intelligence. And I firmlybelieve that you have to have both. And I welcome you to ask that to anybody onyour show around where do you find your soul? Where does your soul sit withinthe organization?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Who do you answer to? And do youfind yourself more strategic or tactical?
Track 1: Clara, aclarifying question really quick is that it feels like when we're, whencompetitive Intel enters the marketing conversation, it feels like there's thismagic phrase we have to tell salespeople that if we say this phrase, it willdispel every preconceived notion about what they think about our competitor.
Track 1: Have themrunning towards us. And as a former seller myself, like I disagreed in manyinstances. It's it's more than that.
Track 1: And I'm justcurious from your like experience with working with a competitive intel, likewhat is a what is a [00:13:00] misconceptionyou generally run into when you are working in product marketing that you'relike, I'm, I've got the mic now.
Track 1: You've gotthe open stage you like. This is your chance to clarify what is that general misconception that people havewith or product markets have with competitive intel that needs to be clarifiedat this moment now.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, I would say if it's a sideof the desk type of job, if it's your 10th bullet point in your jobdescription, there's never a way that you're gonna do it really well. And whatI found is that in typically in those roles, and I'm not pointing fingers atanybody, but in those roles it's typically self-facing, right?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Or it's self-oriented around thedeliverables. It's not necessarily for the organization. I have a quickstory to tell you, Zach, around. I remember working with one rep and he wasasking for an external facing competitive marketing deliverable. He was like,Hey, if you gimme the perfect feature function chart, I'm gonna win this deal.And I was like, okay, how? This was early on in my career. I'm like, okay, Ican support your deal. Let's go. I can add [00:14:00]that to my resume as deals supported and revenue influenced, right? And so Iwas like, how many competitors are in this amazing feature function chart? Andhe said six, and I died on the spot.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And what do you think I did? I actually made that feature function and Ishipped it to the sales rep. I was really excited about it, but I did frame itthat it wasn't perfect and there was some caveats and there was some intelgaps. And he ended up losing the deal. You probably could see that coming amile away. And the reason why was because for me, I firmly believe that thesales rep, and I wonder what you think about this, Zach, the salesrepresentative or the solution engineer they bring the differentiation in termsof their style, their knowledge. I. Their ability to deposition thecompetition. And of course, silver bullets help.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Of course the battle card helps, but it's also in their behavior in terms ofhow strong are they as a competitive seller. And so there's the intel and thecontent, but there's also the behavior and the change and what does it take toactually build rapport with a [00:15:00] buyer?Are you faster and closer to your customers and your competition?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Are you sprinting in line with their event of urgency? That's a whole book thatI could totally write onto.
Track 1: Yeah. I likewhat you said there too, because I think just from like my selling experience,what I is that, and you're hitting on it, Clara, is that. When you canarticulate the problem better than your prospect and customer, it builds thatinherent trust and knowing your audience deeply. Like when I was working likeEdTech it was very, it was a very segmented like space.
Track 1: There was somany different tools, especially if you're talking like reading comprehension.And when I was talking with a English department head, they were like, Oh, Iwant to use TurnItIn.com to help improve our students' writing. And it'slike, well, like, TurnItIn used for plagiarism. I'm curious like is have youfound plagiarism to be the problem?
Track 1: They're likeActually no. That's not been the problem. And I think that's oneexample of how competitive Intel helped me as a rep of giving me insight of [00:16:00] this is how someone would use this productversus this product too. So that's, I think that's where I really lovedcompetitive intel when I was a rep and something like, I always love to seewhen I'm in product marketing today.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, absolutely. For me, especially around the scale of competitiveintelligence, it comes back to newsletters, right? Knowing that you have the, Icall the beat on the street of what's happening now, and for anybody listening,this is my.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Top three things that I wouldinclude in every single competitive intelligence newsletter.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:It's what's changed in themarket or what's changed in our deliverables, right? Those are very muchconnected. It's win-loss stories because there's so much FOMO around, Hey, how did Gab close that deal?And I. Lost that last deal, right? How did he close it at a premium? And I hadto discount like crazy, right?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:So there's that FOMO withwin-loss stories that I love to play psychologically against rep. Don't killme. Don't get angry at me. But I do think that there's FOMO in one loss tounderstand what was that secret sauce that was unlocked by that rep. [00:17:00] Andthen the third thing is rumor on the street.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:That's where I get humbled.That's where I ask for help. That's where I say, Hey. We're having, earlyfeedback from our external win-loss interviews or hearing early feedback on ourconversational intelligence tool. Or, you know what, this really isn't landing.And that's for me where I ask for help and I say, Hey, this is a culture of Compete.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:This is an organization where we all wanna beat the competition, and your earsare closer to the street than a mine are sometimes. And so that call for helpat the bottom always kept me agile and with it in terms of what's right andwhat's wrong and what they can stake their deal on and what's not.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:I really love the idea of a newsletter, an internal newsletter, and I think,Andy said the same thing as well, that's how we created like that culture ofCI. You said something that I want to go back to a little bit earlier, that ifyou have that CI bullet point or your job title as a PMM, chances are you'reonly going to half ass it and not be able to go through all of the way. Ifright now on the pod there's [00:18:00] afounding PMM listening to the episode,
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:What do you think they should do in that case? Do you think that there's maybea caveat or a way when you can build a part of a successful CI program,
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:and then also
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:later down the road, either becoming or transforming yourself into a CI expertand having someone else covering the PMM role?
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:Or do you think that add the perfect place you really should be someonefull-time, just creating and building that process.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah. Thank you for keeping me grounded there because I joke, there's a CEO inmy career who said, Clara, you come in with a sledgehammer, but you need tocome in with an ice pick sometimes. So I think this podcast, I was comingin with a sledgehammer, but happy to out.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:I disagree. Just I'm a sledgehammer guy. Just come on. Either way, you're.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, we have the Thor's hammer, right? We're coming in hot creating echoesthroughout the world. Okay. Corny analogy is done. To answer your [00:19:00] question though, Gab, I would say startwith the little things. I think a newsletter is a very great deliverable. Youcan keep it short.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:You can keep it tight.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:You don't have to have those three sections. Just to show that somebody in theorganization is looking at the market, and then naturally people will raisetheir hand, right? You'll be able to create a Tiger team, an extended team, soit's not all on you to create content. I've worked amazingly with incrediblesales engineers and top sales reps who wanna pay it forward, as well as peoplein strategy, analyst relations, other PMMs. And so when they see one personbeginning to raise their hand, oftentimes there'll be a swarm in theorganization that you can then begin to divvy up work for. So it's not ahundred percent on you as a PMM.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I would also say that typically in companies we have like within Klue, I do alot of consulting and advisory across Klue's, customer base, and also aroundprospects that are looking at Klue.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And when we look at thematurity. And the modeling of how large organizations are, [00:20:00] howmany employees they have, versus what is the relationship with the number ofcompetitive intelligence professionals. There is absolutely a connection. Sotypically I see like when an organization hits. 300 to 500 employees, theretends to be one dedicated person on CI.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Now, of course, is it gonna lookdifferent across PLG in different types of company, in different industries.But what, to answer your question once your company hits like 300 to 500, thenyour sales rep number will go up. Then the need to get more differentiated.Adds more pressure, especially if you begin to join into a very crowded market.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:So I would say if you're a PMM, do what you can. There's tons of free templatesout there. There's tons of advisory and motions. You can even hit me up. I havea lot of templates and happy to have coffee chats with anybody around where tostart as well. And then lean on that SWAT or that Tiger team internally toreally manage the build of the program as well. And then begin to make a casearound why to com, why to invest in Compete. I was working with a customer justlast week [00:21:00] and the leadership changedof where the Compete team was reporting into, and they were questioning whyshould we even invest in Compete?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And so we've built out a dedicated deck around why now and why invest andCompete today and what's your opportunity cost of waiting another week, anothermonth, another quarter to actually have a dedicated head.
Track 1: What does investingin Compete mean? Does it mean just like hiring more Compete people? Does itmean like buying more Gartner reports? I'm curious, what does that investmentlook like in the organization? I.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah. Buy stock. Yeah, exactly. To answer your question, Zach, I would say thatthere's many different looks ofwhat that could be perceived as. So I would say there tends to be an intelsourcing budget. Where do we wanna get new intel from? Whether that's aconversational intelligence tool, whether that's an analyst report, whetherthat's a win-loss agency or whether that's different types of Compete research agencies as well.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:That tends to be a line item.There's, of course, there's a line item for software to [00:22:00] scalecompetitive intelligence out there, and then there tends to be one for aheadcount. And different organizations will invest at different things atdifferent times. But to your point, it's how do we really move the needlearound revenue generated support for competitive deals?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Like what would it mean if everysingle rep in the company goes One more deal? What would that take to secretsauce? Every organization has to unlock. But I would say in those threebuckets.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:And, cl Clara, what I would say is, so I quick story for everyone. I came intothe Compete world because my former sales leader was adamant that we got somebattle cards against Dropbox. Shoutout Zach.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Box and Google Drive and, led my way into finding out that you didn't just haveto have everything live in a, an Excel spreadsheet. Then I got to learn thatthere was actually a practice of competitive enablement, and that led me intowin-loss. And it was really interesting and I'm starting to think about it asplaying sports my whole life. [00:23:00] Like when you finish a game, you're eithergonna win or you're gonna lose. And if you want to kiss your sister, you'regonna tie, but what happens at any of those things, right?
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:If you win that game.
Track 1: Are we gonna just like, let that go unchecked? Kiss your sister? You gotta clarify that.Like
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Yeah. You've never heard, you'venever heard that phrase. A tie is like
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841: I.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Wow.
Track 1: I've never, heard that.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:I can guarantee you our awesomelisteners know exactly what that phrase is like. But yeah, it's it's likegetting a kiss is nice, but not when you're kissing your sister. So it's justlike a tie. You get a, you get that feeling in your stomach where you're like,I could've won, but I didn't lose either. So whatever. Back to the real.
Track 1: glad we got that clarified.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:To the real meat of this. I lookat it as very simple. You, the good teams who win are looking at game film,right? You need to know why you're winning.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:You need to call out those things. You need to make sure that the people whoweren't doing so well during that win are doing the better next time. And the [00:24:00] same thing on the losses. You're not justgonna lose a game and say, oh, we lost, let's not see why we lost. Let's notimprove. Let's not focus on the things that we did well even though we lost.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:And I've now found that, Compete is such a mature. Honestly necessity and weeven do it on our pod. We referenced it the other day when we were talkingabout, positioning and all that stuff. And I firmly believe that once you havethat capacity whatever your budget is, whatever you feel like it fits in yourstrategy, I. Carve out that Compete, budget, whether it's a tool, it's aheadcount sourcing or all of the above. I've definitely matured into A PMM whoabsolutely loves and respects what CI does and personally think that a lot ofPMMs don't have that part of the engine going because again, like you said,it's their 10th thing on their checklist.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Curious, with all that, if you have any thought, but more [00:25:00] particularly, I wanna know from your, I'veonly been in this for about two years, but where have you seen the maturity ofspace evolve over the last, let's say, eight to 10 throughout your career?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, absolutely. Eric. First off really funny acronym. I just I'm stilllaughing about it. I hope all of our listeners are laughing about it too. Zach,you always joke, you said Clara, and I was like, yep. Clarified. We totallyclarified that. It's gonna make it a thing too.
Track 1: I'm like,clarify gonna be the new Here. Lemme let,
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:lemme
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:clarify
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:something real quick. I have never kissed my sister, so clear that up
Track 1: I.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:and don't, you, don't you dare edit this out. Say otherwise.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I've. Definitely seen that competitive intelligence RO roles have exploded inthe past 10 years. It went from, back of the office secrecy, hidden instrategy, doing market forecasting and TAM analysis. In the, I would say in theearly two thousands, based on my POV [00:26:00]could be proven wrong by the next expert in CI. To in the 2000 tens. Itdefinitely boomed in terms of what does that look like for RevGen roles? Andnow we hit the 2020s. And then you have the rise of ai, you have theautomation, you have the investment in the industry too. You have people comingout and sharing what does good CI look like, more so than ever before, becauseyou're taking the secrecy out of it. And there are so many people in the industrythat you'll never know, Eric. You'll never know. You'll never know who theyare. You'll never be able to meet them. And that's because they're definitelyold school and that's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's how they grew upand the conditioning that they went through, and also what works for them.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And so I have deep respect for those people that you'll never know who I'm sureare listening to this today
Track 1: Going backto the story you mentioned earlier where you had the sales rep come to you andsay, Hey, we need this like one-pager, and it's one-pagers for a lot oflike reps in organizations. It's like, Hey, Clara. This is our way todifferentiate ourselves. We need these [00:27:00]assets to go out the door. And I think this is a similar feeling that weuh, many product markers feel is that getting these requests, and we've had afew guests already, Clara, that say like, If you get that request, figureout how to deliver on that because that's another way of how to build thatinternal influence.
Track 1: But itsounds like with that example you shared, you're like, Hey, I did this. Idelivered on that, but it didn't move the needle forward. So based off ofwhat you know today, now, if you could go back in time and give that advice tothat, that early eager Clara that wanted to make that impact, how should moreproduct markers handle internal requests that are like drop
Track 1: a dime thatare like, This is urgent. You, we need this from you. How do you handlethat? And all the while still, like being mindful to the key KPIs, as youmentioned before, like influencing that revenue.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Thank you Zach, for keeping me honest and bringing back to the storytelling. Iwanna drop as many stories and quick tidbits and [00:28:00]nuggets as possible to the listeners here. So the advice that I would give toyounger Clara in my career would've been to not create that and createsomething a little bit more differentiated.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:'cause think about that buyer who's asking. Six different SaaS companies forthe same exact thing and pitting them against each other, right? That is justcreating a lot more confusion. And then your competitive tone gets veryconfused as well in terms of are you that person to gimme the wrongintelligence.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:So to answer your question, I would go back to the size of the deal. I would goback to the rev gen threatening competitors, right? Who is really eating yourlunch. There's typically a handful,like not more than three or four, and those would be tier one. I wouldruthlessly. Prioritized tier one, and when I get a, a hand that would come upthe ankle biters of the world, I would say look like I review these on an annualor biannual basis in terms of how that hits our core marketing deliverables.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:If it's not on the list, we canassess that based on [00:29:00] bandwidth, or maybe you wanna partner withme in creating that. That seems like it's a burn for you. How can you and Icreate that perhaps together? How can the tiger team create that together? ButI have my core tier of competitive. Competitors that I'm going after, what doesmy matrix look like?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And there's different types of matrixes actually. There's competitive likeRevGen-type threatening matrix, and then you have your ankle biter matrix. Youhave your product threat and perhaps your strategy matrix as well. So now I'mgoing in deep, but that's what I would say to earlier Clara of the world, whichis make sure that it's in your top tier of competitors and the deliverablesalign with that. And then most importantly, enroll that in creating ankle bitertype deliverables and make sure that it's constantly focused on the customerand not the competitor.
Track 1: Yeah, youdropped the mic once again. I'm like I, I'm at a loss for words right here, sothank you for that.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Absolutely. Thanks for the great question.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Yo.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Clara, what's your favorite food?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:My favorite food. Oh, [00:30:00] wow. I lovethe pivot. Eric's we need some, we need something to relieve the heat here. Ithink the perfect answer to this would be some milk. 'cause I dropped somespicy takes, but for real.
Track 1: Ooh.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Yo fun fact, milk actually makes it spicier, like it keeps the, yeah. So milk,and milk, soda and beer, those three things.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I think we're gonna have to have a spice off, Eric. We're gonna have, we'regonna,
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Ones will bring us on for an episode.
Track 1: Becausethey're really dying to know if product marketers are marketers.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:yeah,
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Hey, they have celebrities on. They might as well have Clara on.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:absolutely. Let's. Some hot soup, hot ramen, all the hot dumplings. Why notbring it all on?
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:Ooh, ooh. So that's your favorite, that's your favorites right there.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:So I tend to lean towards non-American cuisine. I don't know. I just have abias for food that I don't know how to cook at home. And so some of the coreelements that would [00:31:00] break it downwould definitely be ramen soup dumplings. I've been on the record that I have,just a constant appetite for the best soup dumplings in America. So if anybodywants to keep me on, send them my way. And I would say overall, just veryunique food. I went to Japan and just tried a, an amazing assortment of, RAsushi and I love being. Mind blown in terms of the food environment. Sooverall, I would say definitely ramen, anything in soup form.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:And overall, I'm a big dessert nerd as well. So matcha, snow, ice, milk, tea,boba, it's all on the list.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:You need to try Yerba Mate real
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I've
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:tried that with the fancy straw,
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Eric. Yeah.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:It's.
Track 1: Eh, Clarawe've been, this is an inside joke we've had in our internal group chat. Forwhatever reason, Yerba Mate has become the unofficial drink of
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:[00:32:00] So
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:I.
Track 1: how, how itcame up, but it is just, it is the unofficial drink of choice.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:trying to get, we're trying to get them.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:All right. Clara, this was honestly 45 minutes of some, really good stuff froma learning perspective. I got my gut laughing here, so we got a really nicefilled cup in heading into our weekend.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:I wanted to ask you, do you have any special projects coming up? Cool thingsyou'd like our listeners to know about you, and also where can they just findyou and learn more about what you got going on?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Yeah, so where to find me? Definitely find me on LinkedIn. And I'm also on theCompete Network. I have a dedicated podcast called Back Office to Boardroom.So how to break CI out of. The back office creating decks and docs that decknerd into the boardroom and more to come. So definitely check that out Aroundthat.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I would say in terms of [00:33:00] specialprojects I'm building out what does it look like to start as a first ever CIpractitioner/PMM. What does your resource pack look like to start on Day One?There's so many followers who are looking for this. There's also so manyincredible thought leaders who've published this out, but no one's reallycreated a tight resource package.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:So I really wanna be the first to market around that. And if anybody wants tocontribute, keep me honest. Would love to hear from you.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:When is that coming out?
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Well, it came up this week actually, Eric, so I just added it onto the docketas a new strat project.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:But
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:gimme a deadline. I'd say end of month, middle of March. I'd love to drop that.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:All right, listeners, if we don't have it by March 15th, everyone pound Clarawith requests. All right. We want this. We want this deliverable, and we wantit now.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:I have tons of templates. I do a lot of customer advisory, prospect advisory,and also most importantly, to pay it forward in the industry. So if you'relooking for a walk around deck, a dedicated [00:34:00]charter, a governance model, all the fancy words hit me up.
squadcaster-9idb_1_02-09-2024_120841:Awesome. Awesome. Thank you very much, Clara. I. Was a really impactful episodeand I'm sure our listener will agree with us.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be part of themisfits. I know a lot of our careers don't make sense, but it makes it so mucheasier when we're all connected as a community. So thank you all for listeningand for having me today.
Track 1: incredible.
Track 1: Thank youagain, Clara.
eric-holland--daddy-_1_02-09-2024_120842:thank you for agreeing that we're not marketers. That's another episode. Have agreat one, guys.
squadcaster-icc1_1_02-09-2024_100842:Thank you everybody.
Track 1: See ya.
[00:35:00]