Layoffs in B2B tech are still happening and PMMs are losing their jobs here and there. The three misfits go over their personal experiences of getting laid off and tips and tricks to get on their feet. If you have been fired recently and are looking for your next role, this episode is for you. We cover:
Sit down, take a few deep breaths, and listen to this 35-minute episode on how we can all make product marketing managers become more bulletproof to being laid off (hopefully).
P.S. You’re not alone in this. If you experienced a layoff recently and need help, reach out to us on LinkedIn and we’ll do our best to connect you with your next role -WNM 💀
EP #8 When PMMs go from GTM to GTFO
[00:00:00]
Eric: Hello everyoneand welcome to another episode of We're Not Marketers. And I want to pass itdown to my boy Zach here. For the first intro of the day, Zach, go ahead. Andfor our audience, who doesn't know who you are yet,
Zach: Hey, this isZach Roberts here. And hopefully you won't be getting any tech technical issuesfrom my end here. This is the sales deck intern on the line.
Gab: Amazing, hearingyou loud and clear Gab Bujold, I am the sales deck intern. So I just do salesdeck until I die.
Eric: and you can seeit on my shirt, if you're watching on the Spotify video version, but I'm EricHolland, the one and only [00:01:00] Frankenmarketer. And we want to have a very candid, very open, but hopefullyreassuring conversation today on what it feels like to bounce back aftergetting laid off. So we're going to start this podcast with a little bit of astory for y'all.
Eric: November, usthree guys decided to start a podcast early December, I lost my job. So in afew weeks into our podcast, I became one of the many who are currently lookingfor their next opportunity, or honestly, just figuring out what they want to donext in general. I'd say it was an unexpected event.
Eric: It came rightafter a very long and intensive website re revamp, which, I think all of uswho've experienced one of those know what goes into that. And if you haven't.Bless you for not having to have the scars. So really right now we're in asituation I've got about eight weeks left.
Eric: Yeah. [00:02:00] Eight weeks tomorrow will be seven weeksuntil I'm expected to have my first son, which is epic and awesome, but comesthat great news also comes with the responsibility. Of making sure thateveryone in the household is taken care of. I'd like to give you some insightonto maybe the first few hours to start.
Eric: And how I wasfeeling and where I'm at now. So definitely, I think when you lose your job,the first thing you think about is why me, what could I have done differently,right? Like naturally the human element of your ego is survive. I gotta bebetter. I think, for the first few hours, it was really processing Hey, youwere a head of product marketing, not too long ago, almost a basically head ofmarketing.
Eric: And now you areunemployed. And what I kept telling myself for that first 10 minute period isdon't beat yourself up. Don't beat yourself up. Don't beat yourself up. And amantra [00:03:00] that, I always keep saying,and you may have seen it in a post earlier this week was, you're good enoughand.
Eric: If you put yourbest work in and you know that you're not slacking, then when these thingshappen, all you can do is say, what's next? And that's really, I think what Ifelt after that first few hours was not, what am I going to do? How am I goingto do it? How am I going to fill my bank account up?
Eric: It was what'snext. And I would say for anyone going through it right now, whether it's beena week, whether it's been a month, whether it's been a year. Highly suggesttaking that route of what's next and you never know what's gonna be there and Ican say with full candor that When something like this happens to, in my life,at least there's always something brighter, bigger, or better on the otherside.
Eric: So I want toopen that up. I know we got at least one other here who's experienced a [00:04:00] layoff in their time, but what do you guysthink about that? Do you have any comments, anything you want me to unpack alittle bit more? Happy to definitely share, anything with my boys.
Zach: There's there'squite a few things you said here, Eric. And yeah, plus shout out forhighlighting the industry experts on quote unquote layoffs or two of the threeon the conversation. And when you brought this topic up yesterday for us totalk about, like the first thing that came to mind was that.
Zach: A nine to fivemasks a lot of insecurities. And when you get laid off, it tears off thatbandaid wide open. I remember back in July when I got the sudden calendarinvite from the founder and VP of finance 30 minutes before the work day. And Ilooked over at my wife then like fiance and was Like, Ooh, like I have a badfeeling about this.
Zach: And then onceyou hop on the call within the [00:05:00] firstfew minutes, it's just announced it. And it's like shock and no, ah, it's moreah, shit. This is happening and you're stunned. And all these questions, likeyou said, Eric, come up and you're like, okay. Like at least for the US here, Idon't, Gab don't deal with this, but like when, once you lay it off, that yourhealthcare is gone within that month.
Zach: Like of youbeing laid off so you're like, okay, how do I take think of health care? Likehow do I think about stretching out this next paycheck all these questions comeup and then Eric like You bring up a unique layer, being like, a new parent,and we're like, on the way, that's another hurdle to come up to.
Zach: It's reallyhard to really maintain like an equilibrium when you feel all this chaosclosing in. The last piece I will share is that, on a lighter note, I rememberI was like, Riding back from the train and after a pickleball game, like a teamwe had. And I bumped into this [00:06:00] guywho was also waiting on the train and we're talking back and forth and you'rein San Francisco.
Zach: The secondquestion you'll always get is after, Hey, who are you? What do you do for work?Where do you work? And I was like, Oh yeah, like I'm probably wearing. Oh,where I'm like, I'm laid off. And he's Oh. And his immediate demeanor changed.Like he looked, he turned his face away. He looked at him.
Zach: He didn't wantto even look in my direction. He said, Oh, I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have askedthat question. And I was like, at that moment, I was like, I'm not like dyingor anything. Like I don't have a contagious disease, but I think there's justthis. It speaks to this uncomfortable feeling what for both people when alayoff does enter a conversation.
Gab: I just want tostart by saying thank you guys for sharing like your insight, for sharing yourexperiences. And I'm lucky enough that I never got laid off in thosecircumstances. , it doesn't sound fun at [00:07:00]all. It sounds scary. I'm just thinking if I go full time into something, if Ijust start something and quit my job a lot of those same struggles is going tobe there.
Gab: But I feel likeone of the biggest that you shared, Zach, is And Eric, it's is it me? Andyou're always blaming yourself, even when it's sometimes pure luck, justbusiness decision and guesses that those founders and executive are, havetaken. And I just feel like there's two elements that this is really bringingme to the first one is the more I'm hearing stories of layoff, the more I wantto leave corporate, leave companies and just start my own thing.
Gab: Because this isultimately you need to bet on yourself. And being seen as a number is just, Ifeel like it's a lot old school. And companies shouldn't treat people that way.So first thing, the second one is ultimately it's really tough to bounce [00:08:00] back and it's hard to just prioritizeeverything.
Gab: When the onlything you're known for is where do you work at? And it has an impact on yoursocial status as well. Oh, I have a startup. Oh, what it is. People might becurious, but ultimately it's a lot more successful for some people to see youcoming from Google or Amazon or whatever. So I feel like if we take a step backand if we're just like, okay, life, that's all about work.
Gab: And hopefullybeing a solopreneur or just working in your own thing will help you like have abetter work life balance and stop caring so much about what's your title andwhat people think of it. I think that would be a step in the right direction.
Eric: Yeah. And Iwant to take two or three or 4, 000 steps in that direction. And I, I don'tknow about you guys and definitely want to ask you here, but this wholeexperience has definitely given me that type of perspective that you justmentioned, Gab. And for those listening in, if you don't follow Emma Stratton,for [00:09:00] example she gives some reallygood advice on just going for things that scare you.
Eric: And knowingthat there's going to be A safety net that you never saw there at the other endand you think it's a free fall, but it's given me that perspective and part ofthe reason why we put so much effort these past few weeks into the pod isbecause it makes us happy, right? It makes getting up really exciting to go dothis stuff and spend, my days instead of applying to jobs.
Eric: I'm working onthis pot right now and putting in time and something that fills my cup insteadof something that I know that'll drain the shit out of it. So anyone listeningin highly recommend you, you jump into something that does make you feel,fulfilled, and that could be your own full time consultancy.
Eric: That could beyour own side gig that you pick up with your partner. That could be a [00:10:00] hobby that you make sure. You don't, spendan extra minute of work in terms of missing it. Boxing, for example you don'tput work in front of those things that make you feel fulfilled.
Eric: And when thingslike this happen, it's going to be a lot easier for you to bounce back and youhave things that already anchor you when that full time job does go away. Andsometimes that happens.
Zach: Yeah, likedefinitely if the situation presents itself, and you have them really take thattime to invest in yourself. There was like, I think there's a few underlyingthings that both of you highlighted to that just want to cause one I think thisis something we shared before the call was at.
Zach: Yeah. I knowthe latest like product marketing alliance, like salary report, this has beenlike the first year where the average salary has dipped for product marketers.And my hypothesis is it seems like a lot of that has to do with the layoffsthat we seen [00:11:00] in the market today, Ithink in the past year.
Zach: We've seenabout over 180, 000 individuals laid off in the tech sector in the U. S. AndI'm not sure how much of that number of that factors like product marketing.But the reflection that goes into the second piece is that with, in response tothese layoffs, I've seen like a rise of myself included, of product marketingconsultants.
Zach: And I thinkthat goes back to Eric with the point you're saying here is that hey This hasbeen a hard challenge and this has been an opportunity for a lot of people tobet on themselves, to put their skills, to put their experiences to like sayingHey, I want to build something of my own.
Zach: I want to havea, another avenue. I want to diversify my income. And I think that's beenreally exciting. to see itself. I know I can tell you guys when I got laid off.I spent six weeks on the couch. I know everything that you need to [00:12:00] know about Vanderpump Rules. 10 seasons,240 episodes. I can go down the whole cast because I was just like That was myspace of healing.
Zach: I got reallygood at rollerblading. I talk about it on LinkedIn to like maybe more or lessdepending on who you talk to. But I found it that space to be very rewarding asother avenues to just to heal from an experience where you're nine to fivetakes up more of your 24 seven psyche.
Eric: Yeah, and Ithink you pointed it out, we're seeing, and it could be a factor of layoffs,but Gab, you mentioned it there's something that seems to be very fulfillingfrom the people we've had on our show so far who are doing that independentroute. They really like, not only the schedule that it brings them, and thefreedom in their personal [00:13:00] life,which we all want, to do more rollerblading, for instance.
Eric: But, it givesthem the freedom to do the type of work they really love. We heard Anthony talkabout it, like, how much he really loves doing his little small sector, hecalls it, of the world. We've had Tamara on here, you can hear the passion inher voice, we know Jason personally.
Eric: The way that helikes helping startup PMMs get the job done. There's just something that Ithink innately is missing, almost hollow. When you think of those corporategigs, that we all need, to feel secure and get things like healthcare and therest of the bennies. But I am seeing a huge shift over the last, I don't know,6 to 12 months.
Eric: Of some of, myfavorite people going in that private route and not necessarily tyingthemselves down to one business [00:14:00]relationship.
Zach: Yeah. One quickthing I want to add is I was talking to my wife about this and it seems Todayseems more risky working in a corporate 9 to 5 than it is starting something ofyour own. I'm not sure if you guys have heard this, but I've had a few peers wherethey started a new role, they're excited, and they're gone within the first fewmonths, like within the 90 day mark.
Zach: I can attest tothat and it sucks because you think of that 90 day being like that area for youto learn the job and start delivering quick wins. But imagine when you're like,right about to announce a new strategy, they're like, keep that strategy in yourback pocket because That GTM got a GTFO
Gab: Yeah. Love this.Love the acronym. But yeah, I think it's, I think it's basically the fact of [00:15:00] not just betting on yourself, but likewhen you go through a new job, it's always ultra stressful. I don't know aboutyou guys, but it's like, Hey, it's make or break here. I have 90 days to showas much value as possible. And my role for some people is in marketing.
Gab: So already thething that a PMM job is to bring the leads. I know we had discussion aboutthat, or it's to really focus on I don't know, doing webinars or sometimes ourglorify content writers that pmms are seen by leaderships.
Zach: I wasn'tglorified for writing content. I don't know about y'all
Gab: no, I wasn't,
Zach: It was assumed
Gab: like I
Eric: No, I got allthe gluts or sorry, all the guts, none of the glory.
Gab: Yeah. Yeah.
Zach: feed you didn'teven get the wing
Gab: Exactly. I thinkit's mainly the fact that [00:16:00] you arestuck at being in that rush for 90 days. And it only gets you like so far. My,I think my turn of thought is more about careers are not linear. Like thingswill change. You can try a consultancy for six months, hate it, go back to aproper job.
Gab: But that sixmonths will be one of the best professional experience you'll have becauseyou'll be alone trying to figure stuff out, building new process. Like a PMM bydefault, I think should be generalist. What better, way of trying this out,being a jack of all trades and really making stuff matter when it's your ownshop, when you're trying to do your thing.
Gab: If you can takethat, and then just really learn in the course of six months. It's alreadyputting you ahead of someone who has worked for like Pepsi for 20 years orwhatever again dumb example But you get what I mean?
Zach: And like Ithink there's also value being a specialist too because the speakers [00:17:00] we like the guests we've highlighted inthe past like you gotta Andy, like upcoming episode, who's like really focusedin on competitive Intel and Anthony, who's really focused on homepagemessaging. So there is also that value to specializing.
Zach: And I thinkthat's for some of those individuals, it's worked out really well. That's
Gab: 100 percent andI'm not putting it out But I think that it's also the fact that you're not justdoing Strategy you have to take care of your accounting. You have to thinkabout your branding and it's I don't remember the effect But it's like againI'll tweak it later or don't call me on it But I think it's like the KingSolomon effect or King something else effect And it's the fact that this kingwas able to solve every problem of everyone.
Gab: But then when itwas his time to take decision for his own kingdom or whatever, for his ownstuff, he was unable to do it. And all of us feel like this. I help startups doproduct messaging. It's really easy for me. I try to do it for myself. I suck.I think, [00:18:00] the more we're able to justtackling different elements and having that overhead of I do.
Gab: My ownmanagement of this consultancy or company I'm putting out there is giving yousome roots to then like just Specializing yourself and be hey I just I'm juston that lit this little corner like what Anthony talked about Yeah, basically,I think it can both of them can work together a hundred percent
Eric: And Gab whatyou're saying really just is an echo of what we've heard several times is thatproduct marketing, for whatever reason. seems to align very similar inmentality and execution and just how they go about things as a founder CEO,right? So if you do have that ability to start something on your own, I starteda little side thing myself and a lot of the pains and in frustrations you weresaying about learning I've definitely felt in running [00:19:00]my own thing and it's made me a better product marketer for it.
Eric: And start offas a specialist, I think like Gab, you mentioned or a generalist and then workyour way and figure out what your sweet spot is. Tamara said it herself, buteveryone's got their own superpowers. Some advice as we talk about finding yournext opportunity and maybe losing an existing one is really identify what yoursuperpowers are
Zach: Yeah.
Eric: and making surethat those are the opportunities that you're going for.
Eric: Unless ofcourse you want to brush up some other skills, that, that you may not have. Iknow Gab there's other parts of the product marketing function that we couldall say. Zach, I know you're awesome in enablement in particular. Me, I thinkfrom my end, just like the general marketing principles, because I'm not beinga marketing person.
Eric: Like a demandgen marketing role, right? There's all these pieces that we could brush up on,but at the end of the day, you're going to have your superpowers. And if youlean into [00:20:00] those, don't feel so badabout the ones that you're, you may come up a short on and you'll find thatyou'll be able to excel and maybe find your own place doing your own businesson your own specialty, on the things that you love doing the most.
Zach: And it's reallyquick speaking to about Tamara. I know like earlier this week, but when thisepisode comes out, I know she released a free personal positioning. Like guideand course highlighting that. Cause that's a valuable point area is that we allhave a competitive strength that we bring to the table, but many of us don'treally have time to sit and reflect what that is.
Zach: It goes back tocommon trending saying amongst product marketers is that product marketers arestruggling on how to position product marketing. And I think I haven't had achance to look at the positioning framework myself, but I think that would belike an incredible, like first star for anyone.
Zach: That's lookingto find that what is their ideal [00:21:00]superpower
Gab: Let me know ifyou go through it I did the one from Jess Petrella on practical positioning Andit's done. I think this one is done with Ignition. So I went through it. It'stwo, two hours really good. Go back to some key key elements. I just want topiggyback on what you said, Zach and Eric.
Gab: And then I wouldlike to switch the gear a little bit if I can. Finding your superpower as aPMM. I think it's the first step. It's what you're good at. But, I think we canjust Speaking about finding your why I would maybe take a look into theJapanese concept of ikigai. Sorry, I'm pretty sure I'm butchering thepronunciation.
Gab: But somethingthat gives a person a sense of purpose and a reason of living, basically. Andit's like what you're good at, what you can be paid for, what the world needs,and what you love. And it's just the center of it is this concept. So you findyour superpower, but then [00:22:00] how canyou make money out of this?
Gab: What do peoplecurrently need? What stuff do you love? And I feel like a big part of that isthe pod, at least in the earlier discussions. This is what we're talking about.So yeah, I just wanted to talk about that. And now to switch gear a little bit,like we talked about layoffs
Gab: you guys werereally open about it. We talked about taking the full time route that I'mhoping we can all, we, I'm hoping I can do it in 2024.
Zach: Way in thefuture, way in the future.
Gab: yeah. But Iwould say that we talked about all of those things, but if I'm a PMM, I'mlistening right now, and I just lost my job, or I'm looking, what would be youguys best tips to make the job search a success?
Gab: And maybe I canjust start with one of my tips that I've been doing in the past years. You canuse a CRM like Teal, tealhq. [00:23:00] com, Ibelieve the company URL is, it's a CRM for job offer. So you can like filterthe job, you can make sure I send something, this is the status I am andeverything to manage everything and then differentiate yourself.
Gab: AF, like reallygo towards, okay, so what do I do differently? And then you can really take theIKIGAI concept at heart of what am I doing differently? How can I put mypersonality into this? Do I need to send a Loom video to someone, do I need tocold email them as Eric loves so much and a bunch of stuff like that.
Gab: So that way youcan just. Show that you zig when people zag and a lot of what requires you tobe a PMM is that differentiation piece, at least from a go to market approach.
Zach: Two, like twotips or three tips. I would share that when I was like immediately. When I waslaid off, the one thing it's for one, like time block when you're applying for [00:24:00] roles, because it's very easy to go intothis wormhole of submitting 200 applications and then you look up the clock andyou like thrown in six and a half hours in doing so.
Zach: And it justwears you down. So set a time block each day and say Hey, I'm going to dedicatean hour to job search. And once you do that, just stop knowing because you needthat peace of mind. You're already like trying to heal from the repercussionsof being laid off. Don't dig a deeper hole in yourself.
Zach: for yourself.The second one is that this was one of my mentor recommend for me. Still hiringdot FYI. I'm still hiring dot today. That's the URL. And then we'll share thisand like at the bottom. It's a really cool resource. I believe they use Iforgot which organization's platform they're using, but they, what's reallycool about it is that it will.
Zach: It crawlsacross all job boards and looks [00:25:00] forany organization that's hiring and they filter it based upon like job titlefunction. So from there you can like search from if you're product management,if you're a designer, if you're a product marketer, or if you're in sales, itwill identify all the companies that are higher, actively hiring for thoseroles now and you can click.
Zach: And it'll takeyou right to the job link. That's the second one. The third one and this willgo, relate to the fourth one, is that, the third one, before you submit theapplication, have your LinkedIn open, and see if you are connected with anyoneat those organizations. Because if so Maybe they'll be willing to make anintroduction to the hiring manager.
Zach: Maybe it is thehiring manager. Is there a way that you can get like an informationalinterview, a referral to increase the likeliness of your application getting tothe hiring team? And this one goes to the fourth one is that this one goes, andthis is more 20 20 hindsight. [00:26:00] Don'twait until like you need a job to be on LinkedIn.
Zach: And what I meanby that is
Gab: Love it.
Zach: There's, thisis back and forth conversation that we're. That people hear is that, Hey Idon't want I'm afraid of what my manager or what my boss may think if I startsharing my point of view, if I start connecting with people on LinkedIn, Idon't want to give the idea that I'm looking for a job.
Zach: Devin Reed sayshis best is that your company doesn't own your personal brand and thatderivative of that is your LinkedIn. This is an opportunity for you to buildrelationships. Your company will never tell you, Hey, don't go to thisnetworking mixer. Wise. posting on LinkedIn or should it be any different?
Zach: This is anopportunity for you to meet new people, meet people within your industry, meetpeople within like different organizations because. Whenever like you need tomake that jump or pivot, like I can give an example when I got laid off the new[00:27:00] contractor role that I got six weekslater was because of the relationships I built on LinkedIn.
Zach: It was from athrough a former manager and them seeing the content that I've shared relatedto product marketing. It's one reason why we wanted to bring you on was becauseknowing how much thought leadership you shared related to product marketing andThat was like, it I was shocked when she shared that point because you allknow, like, when we're sharing things that we care about, we're not thinkingabout the job 12 months from now, it's just like you got Eric and Gab, like youguys said before, I said you have a passion for it.
Zach: And for someindividuals that are doing the solopreneur route and sharing that passion, it'sno different than when you're in a nine to five, like that's just an avenue toshare what you care about. And it doesn't even have to be about your job. Youcan't even just talk about for myself, you can talk about crocheting.
Zach: You can talkabout rollerblading. Haven't spoken about Vanderpump yet because I'm, I [00:28:00] haven't, I don't know how to make thatconnection but And there's a lot of stuff to talk about with Vanderpump butthat's just a few things I wanna, few tips I wanna put out there.
Gab: I love I lovethe amazing tip about referrals, like whether you're trying to grow a companyor getting a job, don't sleep on referrals. Like you can get up to like thetechnical tests and like a job offer just by going the referral route. And allyou need is just to connect with someone on LinkedIn and to chat with them.
Gab: So love, lovethis tip a hundred percent.
Eric: All right, itsounds like it's my turn here for the tips and tricks. I'll give you some likepersonal things and then some more practical ones. The personal one is, useyour personal network on the days you're feeling bad in particular. I know thatwhen I announced my layoff to the world, the amount of reach out, the amount [00:29:00] of confidence that I was given.
Eric: In a mere 24hours was enough to probably sink a ship and don't be afraid to say, Hey, I'mhaving trouble finding a job and definitely don't be afraid to announce thatyou've, you've lost your job. I've noticed very quickly that, the people inyour network are there for you.
Eric: We're not hereto criticize you and talk behind your back. We're truly here to help you findyour next opportunity, whatever that is. The next thing I'd say is make surethat you are developing a support system outside of your nine to five. You guysare part of mine, but I'm, we said it earlier, your nine to five shouldn'tdefine you.
Eric: And when yousee me outside of work, the network that I've created in the support system Ihave out there far outweighs. Anything I'm going to get from any employer,right? Make sure that the things outside of [00:30:00]work are also very strong and very supportive. And then, jumping into some morepractical tips, I'd say if, we all have to send emails at some point during theinterview process, I'd say if you don't, then you're really lucky.
Eric: So go ahead. Ifyou don't have a job, go get Lavender AI. It's free for job seekers. It willliterally coach you into making sure that you write better emails to the hiringmanager or to HR or to possibly the CEO. Additionally, check out something likeAligned. Honestly, I think they may be also doing something free for jobseekers, but what it allow you to do is showcase all of your good stuff thatyou do and work on and demonstrate, and you can provide it in a way that's verystructured, you'll know.
Eric: what they'reviewing, what they're not viewing. You can communicate directly and to behonest with you it's one of the very few things you could probably do to standout once you get going in the interview [00:31:00]process that no one else is likely to be doing. And then lastly, I've made apost about this actually today Jan 10.
Eric: But everyresume looks the same, right? And relatively boring. So I would say if you canhave yourself two copies when you go in, have one that can beat the damnalgorithm that all those HR softwares have. And then have one that, that showsyour personality. One that once you get past that first screening.
Eric: That you cangive it to that, that initial call person and say please forward this copy tothe hiring manager. And it may give you a leg up when that hiring manager islooking through 25, 50, 100 different applicants and trying to figure out whichfive she should bring in for the panel interview.
Eric: So those wouldbe my tips to wrap it up. You guys got any questions? Anything you want toexpand on for our group?
Gab: I got one lastone on my end and it's a question. It's another tip. Might be because I'mCanadian, but [00:32:00] after the firstinterviews you can send an email thanking them for their time. So far, I thinkI got some pretty interesting responses when I'm just genuinely polite. Try itout, don't, but I think being nice is a hack that not a lot of people are exploitingto the level that they could.
Zach: Requires zeroeffort? Nah, like this has been a really cathartic conversation. There'snothing that comes to mind but, Look, if you guys are, if anyone's able to, getlaid off crack a pod with the boys or the crew that you identify with. I thinkthat's, I think this has, I think this has been a really cool like way ofbuilding community.
Zach: Like Eric, yousaid it best. It's just you all have become my support network. And I thinkthat's a really exciting trend. I'm seeing more and more of outside of thispodcast is like more communities that are popping up online. That you can justvibe with people. I think [00:33:00] Tomorrow'sgot one Dave Gerhardt got one, Andy's got one,
Eric: Andy's got thebest community in the world. Healthy competition for our listeners.
Zach: yeah. If youcan join those communities. And I think Tamara has a three month offer forindividuals that are actively looking for roles for her community too. I got todouble check that too. But yeah, there's, I think there's just so many coolavenues that even if it's not through LinkedIn I've really loved intramuraltoo.
Zach: So find acommunity where you can just kick back and chill. I think that's been veryrewarding and restorative for me.
Gab: Yeah. Love it.And I feel like we're going to have a lot of interesting links in the shownotes.
Zach: Yes.
Gab: but yeah,basically the last thing I want to say about that is if you've been dealingwith layoffs and if you're looking to [00:34:00]share your experience and just. Keep the conversation going.
Gab: We're onLinkedIn, write to us via DMs or we'll add like an email that you can reach outto us, but basically just know that there's a lot of other people that got laidoff, especially in the product marketing space. So yeah just let us know andhopefully we'll maybe make some episode like this recurring and just be asupport group for people looking for jobs. People, PMMs. Sorry, we're
Zach: We shouldreally caveat that we are not trained. therapists.
Eric: We're nottherapists. It's going to be season two of We're Not Marketers.
Zach: season two.
Gab: considerate.This is in financial advice as well.
Zach: we got two earsand one mouth. The ears work more. We listen more than we speak.
Gab: Definitely.Definitely.
Eric: All right.Thanks for listening to another episode and one of the very few episodes we'llhopefully ever have to have about layoffs of We're Not [00:35:00]Marketers.
Zach: Hopefully thisis the last one we're gonna be having about layoffs. That's the affirmationwe're putting out there.