S2 (Ep#1): Why we faked the pod’s “end of life” last month?Measure emotional engagement.

[00:00:00]

Track 1: Y'all weback we back from the grave y'all

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:What? Revival? Yeah, boy!

Track 1: Y'allthought y'all thought this wasn't gonna happen

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:back! I got cocoa. I

Track 1: Welcome

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:hot cocoa to celebrate in my Aries cup. There we go.

Track 1: Welcome toseason two, but boys we gotta We've got a lot to get caught up on. Like why thehell you

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:season two! Of we're

Track 1: are asking alot of questions.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:marketers. What

Track 1: You thoughtyou can get rid of us that easily. You guys must have a lot of questions as towhat happened here right now. Why the heck did these fools fake the death oftheir pod? And what does that have to do with product marketing andspecifically emotional engagement?

Track 1: But, uh,really excited to kick off the conversation. Like, [00:01:00]Like, what else am I missing? Hey,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:that I'm back for season two.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:exactly. They were like, I thought him having a child would, would make a stopto it, but no, you know, they, they, they need to deal with us. Um, and, uh,yeah, we're happy to be back. We're glad to be back. And, uh, I think this isgoing to be a kick ass season too.

Track 1: Gab's happyto be back from South America. And um, the background may look different, butI'm still living at home with the parents. So, don't get that confused.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah, well, and I want to say thank you for everyone for being patient. Notmany people play off an April fool's joke that lasts the entire month of April.So thanks for sticking with us. And we excited. We're excited about thisseason, especially cause we're going to make it worth your while.

Track 1: And that,and that's what we always hear.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:let me ask you, so we had a great season one.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I think a lot of [00:02:00] people, um, feltemotionally impacted by what we were doing. Skill levels. So what's the deal?Why'd we cut it off? Why'd we fake our death in the first place?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Um, I think it's just circling back to, Our last episode, air quotes, um,related to fact that we ask the public, we ask a lot of PMMs they think we askour guesses. We ask pretty much everyone basically. the answer we got was,well, are marketers basically. because of that, we decided to, to fake ourdeath. And close the pod.

Track 1: Yes. Andthen to add to that, it's that you never really know how much someone caresabout your product. You got a lot, some organizations say, Hey, our productsloved by X amount of people. But how much do you get a chance to really test itout and see, like, how much it mattered if it no longer existed?[00:03:00]

Track 1: And we sawit in, like, comments. We saw it in surveys. Hell, I think each of us gotseveral individual DMs asking if this was really happening. And we're going totalk more about that, but like, what does emotional engagement mean to aproduct? And how does that relate to product marketing itself?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I feel like it's a little, it's a little like our own, uh, product market fittests or survey. Like, uh, will people actually be disappointed if we leave? soI think we did a great job in, in capturing that and understanding that aswell.

Track 1: I don'tknow, maybe that one guy, that one individual that said that this is the worstidea to ever get traction on LinkedIn, I think he popped a Bottle of Merlotwhen he saw we were shutting down.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah, yeah, no, a very expensive bottle. And I'd say, when we, uh, when we kindof came up with the whole thing, You know, it makes sense, right? skeletons.Our brand's already dead anyways. Very, [00:04:00]very, um, on brand for us. Um, I think overall we like to play a little bit ofa troll, a little bit of a prankster persona on LinkedIn. Um, why not loop thatin with April Fool's? And I think, you know, gab, you already said it, right?One of the questions I love asking in research is like, imagine what your lifewould be like if this product, you know, went out of business and you weren'table to use it anymore. and we got a lot of feedback.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I think maybe some therapy sessions were booked because people were so upsetabout the news. Um, And I think overall, when you think about making a splashand especially when you've got all these awesome podcasts out and coming outand are going to continue to come out, was, um, an opportunity for us to justdo something super different. Um, once again, so I think that was, that waskind of it. Definitely no ill intentions and we're definitely excited to, uh,get deeper into season one [00:05:00] here

Track 1: Yeah.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:let's face it, like, uh, product marketing is hard. So we needed a break aswell, especially balancing everything out. So consider this, uh, April fool'sjoke. I'll also ultimately break.

Track 1: Yes. And,um, what's not an April fool's joke is that we're still not marketers. That's,that's still, that's still the case. Um, despite what, despite what the generalopinion has said though, too, as well, it's, it's a point of view that westrongly believe in and that, um, As Eric, you said earlier, it's authentic tous, along with the skeletons of the build, like the brand that's evolving overtime.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:and it's keep going and evolving, except the hoodies and the sneakers and thecool art that's staying. So got a, kind of a general, um, sentiment I want toask you. Right. So how did [00:06:00] you feelwhen the pod ended, when we put, when we put that final note, um, we obviouslyhad a week of teasing, but when we finally announced pods over, how did youfeel about the moment?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Um, Zach, do you want to start?

Track 1: Yeah, I can.I'm like, I had to really convince myself that it was over because outsidelooking in, it was like, you guys were seeing the messages and I had to likeconvince myself to a place where it's like, like method acting just withoutthe. The weird, I am legend type of vibe from Will Smith. It was like, this ishappening.

Track 1: But when,what was really like, what's the word I'm looking for? Kind of took me back.What's like the response level of response that we got from individuals, likeon LinkedIn, um, the messages we got, um, saying like how people were like,Hey, I really enjoyed listening to your episodes. And I was just like, wow, Ididn't, I [00:07:00] didn't, I think Iunderstood.

Track 1: Stated ordidn't really understand the full scope and breadth of how much, uh, arelationship this pod has built with. Listeners in the PMM space in afar.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Actually echoes a lot, how I felt, um, and still feel right. Until we get thisepisode out. But I've actually like missed it. You know, I've like, I've

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:with people on the side here, but I've just missed that.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:And I'd say been, it's been kind of hard on me. Um, Yeah, like the guy who cameup with this idea to, to tease everyone's feeling bad about it now, but it'slike, I, I want to tell everyone we're just joking. So, it's so cool to finallyhave the episode. We can get it off our chest and, you know, we're finallyback.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:So, [00:08:00] Gab, do you have any, how, how'dyou feel when it ended?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Well, when it ended, like immediately after, I don't, I wasn't shocked oranything. I think I didn't really realize it. So I was like, okay, cool. Iguess final episode is done. Um, then we didn't met for a few weeks. And itkind of felt weird, like what you guys, I was like, Hmm, I'm, I feel like Ishould have done something this week related to that, but I didn't.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:So that's that, um, yeah, I would say the amount, the amount of love wasdefinitely something that I wasn't expecting to that level. And I really feltbad because then I had to speak to a bunch of people and then they asked me.You know, uh, Hey, are you really closing down the pod? And then I was like, Idon't think I lied to anyone.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I was just like, uh, no, I can't. I, I kind of crumble under the pressure and Isaid, no, no, we're not closing. It's like a trick. But, uh, other than that,it was, it was good. I was able to. To keep my consistency and, uh, don't freak[00:09:00] out

Track 1: I think Itold someone I was like, I told someone, I was like, yes, this is a, this ispart of a broader marketing campaign, but if you tell anyone. What I told you,I will deny it.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:You will become a skeleton. Well, and I've actually, I'll admit I've definitelylied to a few people. Not, not because I wanted to. So, y'all. know who youare. I'm sorry. And

Track 1: Oh, we'resorry.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:this is the big reward, uh, for it all. Sometimes a little white lie is okay ifit means that you're not going to hurt them in the end.

Track 1: What a, whata, what a great time to say sorry on the 20th anniversary of Ruben Suttard'shit single, I'm Sorry, 2004, you know, like. The timing.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Whoa.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:the reference.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:What? What a deep, deep take there. Holy, pulling out some Reuben.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I'm sure this is coming from Reddit [00:10:00]or something.

Track 1: No, this iscoming from personal memory. And you know what? Ruben's stutter has a, has aspecial place in my heart. And this kind of segues into emotional engagement.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:He should have

Track 1: What we, heshould have won, you know, clay Aikens. He may have won American Idol back thenseason three, but he still lost as the mayor of San Diego in that race.

Track 1: So. He stillgot, he still got that L, um, 20 years too late. We'll argue that on a separatepod, but what's really cool about this topic, like really emotional engagementis that one thing that, what it means to me, I'm curious to hear what you guysthink is that when I was in sales, I read this book called the science ofselling by David Hoffeld, and he talked about like.

Track 1: Nearly halfof every sale depend was dependent upon like your mood, your emotion, yourpersonality. How you felt about the product, the brand, the company. [00:11:00] And, um, I was thinking about that, likein relation to this pod too, like when we were like shutting it down air quotesand seeing that response and seeing how people were reacting to that of like,wow, like in 15 episodes, well, this is the being the 16th one now, like wedeveloped like a really dope relationship with.

Track 1: Like severalindividuals in such in like a span of what four months and that that'sincredible to think about

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:That's like an MBA in product marketing a little bit. Storytelling,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah, no. And, and that's what I think is one of the highlights of what we'redoing. Right. Um, yeah, we're, we're getting great information from experts outin the world, but I do feel like there's an emotional connection that we'rehaving. Um, you know, with our audience vicariously or directly through, um,you know, communication methods.

Track 1: Yes, I gottaI gotta say when we were making that video for uh, Our celebration of life. [00:12:00] I was kind of tearing up too. I was likedang this ain't real but why

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:so

Track 1: am I sad?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Oh, man, and, and shout out to Zach. Great edit. Great, great edit there, man.Like, it's so good.

Track 1: Oh, that was10 hours. Well spent. I got to say five minutes and I was like five minutevideo 10 hours. Well spent. I was so happy, but that's it's like. When we thinkabout it, I don't know if we were talking about this before, but you rememberlike the old school products that we grew up with as kids, like Dunkaroos orlike the Kudos and, and, but like, if you were to see that at a store today, Ibuy the whole stock.

Track 1: And I thinkthat's just like,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Dog, haven't you seen

Track 1: that's justlike,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:are back?

Track 1: no, you'relying.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:bro,

Track 1: to leavethis. Don't lie. I'm about to leave this pod right [00:13:00]now.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I went to Sam's Club, and I saw them, and bought, you know, like a, whatever,64 pack of those Johns. I'm tellin you, I'm tellin you, I had the same, I hadthe same emotion that you just said, I was like, years old again, let's go! Andno mom to tell me no this time!

Track 1: Disposableincome inaudible gas.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:That's right, yeah, use, use my old, uh, HRA card for that. When speaking ofemotion, you know, I'm pretty excited when it comes to our guest list. So sincewe got guests, our season coming out for season two, what do you guys thinkabout sharing our guest list? Thanks!

Track 1: We ain'ttelling them anything. If you want to see that guest, look, oh, you got to goto not marketers. com. Not only do we have a new season. We got a new website.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:alright, you see, I was trying to, I was trying to be the [00:14:00] nice guy, but Zach is playing bad

Track 1: Nah,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:no,

Track 1: no,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:no, you're not

Track 1: no.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:on this episode.

Track 1: I'm like,yo, if you guys want to see that sign up for the newsletter at not marketers.com, then you'll see a preview of season two. We, we promise you.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:it, we, uh, what we can tell you is it's a fire guest list. It's a fire roster.

Track 1: it's,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:would, I would say with good, good confidence, we've got Like,

Track 1: we got thefire mark. We got the fire Marshall on standby. That's how much heat. Is beingbrought

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:on speed dial, speed dial,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Oh boy. I'm looking at it right now. That's fire. All right. So, boys, whatshould we talk about next?

Track 1: gosh,

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:should, you know, we just, we just tease something [00:15:00]down, right? We talked about the newsletter. Should we say why we're launchinga newsletter?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Because Gab wants us to get all your emails and send them to Salesforce for avery low price.

Track 1: uh, uh,that, that's very on Brandand for Gav

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Well, yeah, would say, yeah. Why are we making a newsletter? Especially becauseI think it's even, if it's even better story, because one, Eric never watched apodcast in his life before, and two, Eric doesn't open any of the newslettersthat he's subscribed to. So Gab, why are we doing a newsletter?

Track 1: Uh, is thisforeshadowing for end of season two?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Um, well, the reason why we're doing a newsletter from my understanding, fromwhen we spoke together and everything, I would say that We're trying to givemore to our [00:16:00] audience, right? There'sonly so much you can do with a podcast. Yes, you can listen to it. Yes, there'sa bunch of stuff you can, you can do.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:You can download it. But there's still a lot of work to be done in order tobridge the knowledge and insights you're getting from those episodes

Track 1: Yes.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:that is actionable and can help you win as a product marketing manager. Um, soprimarily the goal of the newsletter for us was how can we help you createinfluence with. digest with summary with our own thoughts based on everythingwe've been learning so far in season one and of course season two.

Track 1: And that's,that's a good summary, g and like, when I think about the guest we spoke to,like the pa like last season from like tomorrow, Madison, Colin, like, therewas a lot of stuff that we learned personally that it's like you can't justhear it once and have it. Absorbed. It's like going to the gym. It's like, [00:17:00] you got to get those reps in.

Track 1: You have tobuild that habit. I guess this is like another Avenue just to give thatinformation to help you be more influential and not be left on read by yoursales team when you build a new, uh, one pager for them

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah. And for, you know, my perspective, I told, I told the guys, it was veryimportant that we make this different. We make this unique. There's so manygood newsletters out there. How are we going to compete with that? Right? Sowhat we will say as we work out the final format and deliverable, you will havesomething different.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:You will have something fun you will have something that allows us to tell morestories than we could just tell on a podcast episode. I'm really excited aboutit, especially coming from someone who's not traditionally that excited aboutnewsletters. Um, and, and I can assure you that we're going to make this onejust as fire as [00:18:00] every episode of thepod.

Track 1: and betterpart about it is, is that you don't got to write it, we write it for you.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Don't, Zach's, Zach's lying. He's going to let ChatGPT write it for him. Wejust hooked him up with the, ChatGPT 4 script and he's going ham

Track 1: I'm like,Hey, I'm like, The marketers, correction, the product marketers who use AI, I'mlike, that's next level, come on now, but we might use GPT in some of the, someof them, but we'll let you know, or maybe not. We'll let you decide

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:that we

Track 1: it's everysingle image. Yeah. We got to start from somewhere

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:another thing that I, I think would really be key this season is, Um, you know,we're true misfits and we feel like we kind of gathered a small tribe of otherPMMs misfits, um, over those past few [00:19:00]months and we thrive on feedback. So if there's some stuff you like in episodesor you don't like, or you think we could improve, please engage with us.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Like we're, we're true people who's just trying to, you know, have fun andlearn a lot more about product marketing. and yeah, like just reach out to ourLinkedIn page or on the website or whatever. And, uh, you know, we have, wehave some free swags we can give sometimes. So, you know, maybe you'll fall

Track 1: sometimes,

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:giving us

Track 1: or you can.If you want it faster, you can shop the merch store at not marketers. com

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:or, and subscribe to our newsletter. I mean, it's, uh, you know, the data goesstraight to Salesforce right here. So you just need, you just need to encouragea small local company, which is also a billion dollar one.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah. And when we say we're going to put you in drip, we mean it literally.Everything.

Track 1: And i'm likethis shit this shameless promotion for the [00:20:00]last 37 seconds it's just to fill up the time that we got here with you herewhat what

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Are we getting paid for that short advertisement we just did, or is that, isthat, Gab, is your dad hooking us up with the 25

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah, maybe 25. My dad can spare 25 for each of us. Canadian dollar though,which is 25 Canadian in U. S. D. is what, 7 bucks?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Grubhub?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:sometimes.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I

Track 1: hey,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Grubhub.

Track 1: that'senough

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:shop in the U.

Track 1: that'senough for a yerba mate. I'll i'll take that the unofficial drink of we're notmarketers Yo,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:know, transfer me that seven USD in a Grubhub gift card so I can get me acouple Yerba Mates from Target. Yeah.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah, I'll bring you some from, uh, from South America.

Track 1: I got aquick question for y'all. We talked about, we talked a little bit aboutemotional engagement, about how we're using in our pod. We, we looked [00:21:00] at, we saw comments, we had a survey, wehad, we had a poll that completely shattered us, almost shattered us, I'mcurious. What else, like, if, if for like the, if for us product marketers inthe space, like, what are other ways that we should be measuring, like, youknow, Emotional engagement.

Track 1: Like howcould someone replicate this in what they do in their nine to five?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Well, for me, I think, you know, it started at the very core of what we do,right? This started as like a bitch session. This pod started as like anoriginal bitch session between myself and Gab, and then you had the same onewith Gab. There's a lot of emotions tied to that, and I think what we've beenable to do is keep the root of that. And like, Hey, there's all of theseproblems, struggles, strifes, things that we need to overcome as productmarketers and, you know, we've, we've [00:22:00]kept that, you know, we're not, we're not shying away from it. Um, you know,we're still calling out a spade, a spade. and we've got a few episodes comingout this season in which we even look kind of at ourselves.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:We just had, we just had one with. Enter name that I can't say here yesterday.Um, you know, and talked about some of the things that product marketers canlook at themselves in the mirror and change. And I think that's from anemotional standpoint, we have picked that are tied to emotion naturally, right?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:When we started our first conversation and we've just found a small tribe, likegab said, who believe. And similar beliefs that we do, who have similaranxieties that we do, have been, uh, steamrolled by a naive CEO who was nothiring properly or, um,

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I think [00:23:00] that's how I would suggestanyone else, if they want to try to duplicate emotional engagement piece isfind the conversations that are super emotionally charging. And,

Track 1: Yes. Yes.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:attack it.

Track 1: Yeah. Talkto your people. I think that was something that, uh, he or she who cannot benamed said yesterday is that for a profession where we pride ourselves on beingthe voice of the customer, there's some of us who don't want to talk to thecustomer. And, um, there was, there's two things I want to add is that one, itwas like one thing when we were building out this podcast, I remember we wereall sitting down and we're like, Hey, one, how do we better understand thepersona?

Track 1: Was one wetalked amongst ourselves. We spoke to, we speak to product markets in spaceevery single day and organizing that in a persona doc of like. I call thisframework that PQR squared. I read it on LinkedIn and it was [00:24:00] just like, Hey, what are the threeproblems, three questions, three roadblocks, three results that someone inyour, your ICP may face related to X problem for us was.

Track 1: Feelingmisunderstood. And then the second one, I'm just going to wrap it up is that Iwas talking to a potential client and we were talking about like, Hey, how doyou communicate ICP to a sales rep? And I was like, first and foremost, likeyou got to talk their language and like, you got to understand the meaning.

Track 1: You got tounderstand the feeling like, don't say, Hey, what's your ICP. I'd be like, Whatis the thing that a prospect would say that indicates that makes you feel I'mgoing to close this deal? What are the things that they're doing that you'regoing to be like, Oh, this is a clear problem. Like what are the, what are theyfeeling?

Track 1: Whatfeelings are they describing when you know, like, Oh, we can relate to that. SoI think that was [00:25:00] one way thatinforms how to use emotional engagement just to be a better product marketer toyour sales reps. And that, again, going back to that influence piece.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Exactly. And I, I like what you said about basically talking to people andvalidating it, but I think, A lot of it is just easier because we feel or feltlike misfits. Um, and we also are in position when we can understand if thoseassumptions are real. Like just a call I had this morning with a founder and itwas for a PMM role. Um, and the first two thing I realized is person put outthe role because it looks, it looks trendy, like, um, B2B SaaS marketingmanager. And when I started asking about the role, I realized that he didn'tknow what good product marketing was looking like. And just by listing downlike the task, I said, you need a marketing coordinator, an [00:26:00] intern or someone in ops, but I don'tthink you need a PMM.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Um, and like we even had. Like I even told him, I think right now the role withyour gold and go to market to do X, Y, Z. And then he said, what do you mean bygo to market? And I was like, well, it's in the job title you just posted. So Ithink there's some gaps like that, that I'm not blaming him. I don't know wherehe heard that.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Uh, he needed to hire a PMM, uh, but I think sometimes there's foundationalwork that needs to be done. and the funding PMM can do it, but you need to makesure that the CEO or the co founders are able to understand it. So in thatcase, this is everything that we've been hearing, that we've been feeling,

Track 1: Yeah. Yes.Yes.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:is a real, real situation. So we can help real people with real problems withinit.

Track 1: Anthony saidsomething like that last season. He said like product marketing, it's like theone marketing profession where there's go to market and the [00:27:00] job description, but then. To yourexample, gab, like you put that in there. Some of us don't know what go tomarket means or what it even means for the work we want to do.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:And that's why we're back for season two. Isn't it? Because our job is notfinished. Product marketing is still so misunderstood. Like it, I, I, um, I'mat clue now. Right. Woo. Big changes since season one. um, you know, it's, it'sEven the first few weeks, one of their customers asked, like, they're trying tofill a job description and they ask, what is, what should I put on this jobdescription?

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Right. You know, they were asking a vendor, what should go on a job descriptionfor a product marketer? what's super interesting about that to me is like, one,you're going to someone who's obviously not directly related to your business.Two, it just shows that I don't know what I'm necessarily hiring for or what Iwant to hire [00:28:00] for. And more and moreof us are going to get shoved into one of those positions. And then more andmore of us will have what happened to Zach and I, and, um, you know, it's just,it's not a good

Track 1: Out thedoor.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:It's not a good cycle. And so I think that's, what's really cool. What we'retrying to do here, who knows what type of dent we're going to make. Um,eventually we'll figure out a metric that we can tie to it, but our mission'snot over and, um, that's why we're back for season two.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:exactly new beginnings. I'm very excited about this. Uh, and that's coolbecause we're all, all in the, in different situations, um, compared to seasonone. So, uh, I think it's, uh, it's going to be a pretty cool, uh,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:are those situations? Let's talk about that a little bit. I, I, I made onelittle note, right? I'm, I'm over at Clue instead of working in dentalprocurement software. And, uh, you know, got a little guy here. Enzo [00:29:00] is as of today, two months old andthriving, absolutely thriving. So, I think those are the two big changes fromseason one, Eric at We're Not Marketers versus season two, Eric at We're NotMarketers.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:What's going on in your world, Zach?

Track 1: So I'mstill, still consulting. Uh, what's changed now? Few things have changed. OneI'm living at, like I said, moved from our apartment from San Francisco, livingwith the parents gives you more financial runway in building the consultingbusiness too. I have my own work email. So if you're trying to hit me up for apotential client engagement, I'm not going to hit you with the ZG roberts atiCloud.

Track 1: com. Or asthese other two gents know, my other one I had since I was 12. Robe, be 62 atgmail. com. You can hit me up at Zack at break [00:30:00]into product marketing. com. A long ass email, but it's specific to what I do.Um, but the lastly, think through as well as that. Just learning kind of how tobuild like a solo consultancy and gab you and I've spoken about this too a lotis that like building that clientele building that relationship like coming inwith what the work we've been doing and the conversations we've had about whatgood product marketing looks like or how to.

Track 1: Be want tolike build that influence, how to define that work and how to shape it. Um,it's been really cool. Like I've had clients being like, I still want to workwith you and potential clients saying like, I do want to work with you. So, uh,and I feel like it's a big part of just kind of talking with you guys eachweek, the guests we bring on and things we've been learning too, has given me astronger foundation to like, you know, Strike out on my own.

Track 1: Despite lastJuly, the founding story was finding the door.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:[00:31:00] want to add to that too, Zach. Ithink you're selling yourself a little short cause last, last, you know, whenwe started this, you were like kind of a one, a one client operation more orless, and I am progressively seeing every week you have interest building andbuilding, so you are in my eyes, a full blown consultant in every shape of theword, and it's super cool as your friend to see, you know, you go from justlike Finding a way to make ends meet, to like, you, this is your thing now. Iwould, I

Track 1: I appreciatethat.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Make sure you're not selling yourself short on that, dude.

Track 1: No, Iappreciate that. I appreciate

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:and it's just a good segue to what's new with me because like just seeing youthrive as much and working with clients and doing that just ultimately pushedme to do the same. Uh, and yeah, like it's, uncomfortable, but at the sametime, like, very liberating. Um,

Track 1: it. It is.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:[00:32:00] yeah, so yeah, you're, you've beena, been a big motivation man into like, uh, you know how it's done and, uh, Ireally like our chats.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I feel like. always sharing how this is how I do things. You share how this ishow I do things. and I feel like it's just like having those networking chatinto

Track 1: Yeah.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:stuff as a full blown consultant is very, uh, insightful because then

Track 1: Yeah.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:cover what I'm doing. And I think it's always like the most important thing forme, uh, is am I working on the right stuff?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:You know,

Track 1: Yes.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:which to me, I feel a lot of my product marketing experience have been givingme that. kind of mindset of I saw founders do that stuff for like years. I wantto make sure that I prioritize my, my time to work on what actually bringresults.

Track 1: Yeah. And,and guys, don't get me wrong too, as well. It's like, it's been very libertyliberating, but it's a different type of stress from a nine to five with [00:33:00] consulting. Like I was just telling youguys, I think like earlier this week, and if I didn't, I'm going to say it now.Last week I lost a 25 K deal and it was because of two negotiating mistakes Imade.

Track 1: And well,I'll talk about it more at some point, but it was just like, that was like alesson for myself I got. And, but then like, I think we're like going back toEric and, um, gab, we're talking last season about the layoffs. Like we weregoing, I was going through a time where. When I, when I first happened, I waslike applying to roles, not hearing anything, like going to interviews thatkind of made me feel dehumanized, like felt less of a person and made me feellike a number versus like kind of considering my aspirations, what I wanted todo compared to today, where.

Track 1: Like youguys are describing, like being able to work on some really cool projects fromlike partner sales engagement to helping build a thought leadership strategy.And like having people that want to [00:34:00]work with you because of the unique skill set that you bring to the table andlike the value you're bringing and kind of building that from ground.

Track 1: It's been,it's crazy to think of how much of a 180 like has changed in, um, seven, eightmonths. And again, I'm just fortunate to be In your guys's circle and just tobe like the privilege of doing this with you all each and every, every week.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Leveling up. up. And, by the way, Gab didn't, Gab didn't like, shoot a straightarrow on this. What he meant to say was, he quit his job and he's now a fulltime

Track 1: Quit hisjob.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:That is, that is what he meant to say. So,

Track 1: Yeah,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:for you both.

Track 1: give thisman his roses. Give this man his roses. But, if you, if you're allergic toroses, then we'll give you sunflowers. So, we'll

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I'm allergic to work. That's why I decided to sell my own thing.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:But yeah, no, that, that's, uh, Anthony Perry's

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:work are [00:35:00] intertwined, basically.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Anthony's Perry's post, it was perfect. He goes, If you're not a good employee,then you become a consultant.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Exactly. Yeah, that's, uh, that's spot on.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I laugh so

Track 1: Suck at yourjob? Go, go into consulting.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Yeah. And

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:arguing with everyone at your org. Just become a consultant.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Exactly. Point what's not working. You should change this. It sucks. 10k,please.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Well, that's cool. Thank, um, I'm excited. I know we've got a lot of coolthings coming over the next few months, both in the pod and out of the pod. um,make sure you're all tuning in and, uh, We'd love, actually I'm gonna open thisup, we'd love any, any opportunities to collab. have no idea what that lookslike currently, but if you want to reach out to the Skelly boys, we're allears.

Track 1: We're all,we're all for it. And If you comment on one of our [00:36:00]memes and posts, you know, the benefit of reaching out to us, you don't knowwhich one of us is responding. It could be Eric,

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:to be

Track 1: it could beGak,

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:I'm

Track 1: it could beme. I do, I do drop a little easter egg in some of the posts to let you knowwho it is.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Oh yeah, a colored emoji. That's,

Track 1: Yes

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Easter egg.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:yeah, yeah, yeah,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:I know every time Zach's posted cause he's got the thumbs up. I'm like, Oh,that's Zach. I try to keep the yellow. I try to keep the yellow emoji on thesocial.

Track 1: I gave theEaster egg. Oh my yo gotta hit you with the black had

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:yeah, no, it's an object, but

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Zach's like, Zach's like, I want to be secretive, but not too secretive. Sohere's a little nugget for you to chase [00:37:00]out.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:well,

Track 1: If no oneknew, now you know. That's

Track 1: And if, ifI, if I, if I hit you back with um, if I give you a cheeky response, and yousee the moon emoji, that's me too. I use the moon emoji a lot.

Track 1: Giving youthe side eye.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:oh,

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:you're giving all of our tricks away.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:oh.

Track 1: Well, I'mjust, I'm not giving your guys tricks away, I'm giving mine away. So nowThey'll still don't know what it was like on YouTube.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:All right. So. What do you guys think? You think we're, we're near wrapping uptime? Do we have any other, you know, big takeaways we want to drop on the, onthe [00:38:00] group?

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Um, just a summary, go on our new website and please tell us how you feel aboutit. Like, uh, you know, as, as product marketing, uh, consultant that you haveus technically. Uh, you should definitely, you should definitely give usfeedback. That way we'll be able to say, Hmm, I understand that it doesn'twork. Uh, but yeah, we're a consultant, so, you know, we like to stay vague anda little bit. Um, but

Track 1: we'll choosethe feedback that we want to listen to.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:Exactly. Exactly. Check the website. Um, subscribe to the newsletter if youfeel like it. I think you're going to be loving it. We're, we're going to begiving a lot of Easter eggs. That goes beyond emojis, uh, on that

Track 1: That's true.

gab_1_04-11-2024_135743:yeah, in for a treat.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Absolutely. And, and like Gab said, tear it up. know, won't hurt our feelingstoo bad if you don't like our messaging. There's always room for improvement.And, [00:39:00] um, You know, I think at thevery least help us refine it because Zach spending a lot of money on it with,you know, the help of his wife and paying her in Panda Express.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:So we need

Track 1: Yes,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:the proper feedback on the coding and all of that good stuff. So please makesure.

Track 1: yes,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Check out

Track 1: yeah. We hada,

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:website officially coming soon.

Track 1: it's goingto be out when you guys check this out. NotMarketers. com.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:make sure you check out the new, we're not marketers website available.

Track 1: Drop it likeit's hot. NotMarketers. com. And like Gab said earlier, that's where you cansign up for the newsletter. Sign up. If you feel like it, it's going to be oncea week, giving some insights, recaps on how to be a more influential productmarketer that your [00:40:00] CEO shows thedoor to. Um, but if, if they do let it be that they regret that decision asthey did with all three of us.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Oh yeah. And, and guys, I just want to say, feels good to be back.

Track 1: Yeah. Hellyeah. Hell yeah. Oh, until I think this is where we get until next time,everyone

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:Thanks for another

Track 1: we'll see.We'll see.

eric-_1_04-11-2024_135743:of We're Marketers. Season 2!

Track 1: Adios.

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